6.4 Stall No Start - Really?

Keith Browning · October 1, 2009

Customer called from the highway the other day saying his F450 went into regen then lost power and stalled on the highway. It would not restart though nobody can tell me if it would crank or not. He had it towed to his yard to unload the dump body full of dirt. The next morning (today) he tried it and it started right up. (I know what you are thinking) He drove it into the dealership and parked it.

So I get the repair order, grab the keys and off I go. Runs great! But wait, the temp gauge is not moving. Pull into the shop and I perform my inspections and ah ha! No coolant. Put three gallons in it and verified the left radiator tank seam is leaking. There are no DTC's in the system except a P1000 from when I installed some injectors 3000 miles ago which the clear distance PID indicates... so nobody cleared anything. There is no evidence that this thing even overheated either.

Without DTC's and not being able to verify any performance issues, stalling or a no start condition I have nowhere to go here. This sounds like an EGT sensor failure but every time I see that failure I see a DTC for it.

Is there any engine protection shut down that might occur under these circumstances - regen, loaded truck, no coolant and low ECT with normal/high EOT readings?

I am baffled. Posted Image It has a new radiator and I have run it and driven it... will be road testing again and if it behaves I am sending it home. What would you do? What can you do really?

Jim Warman · October 1, 2009

What can you do? Print up some Darwin Award certificates, maybe?

With a firm grasp on the concept that there is no cure for "stupid"... you (nor I) will ever get an operator to regularly check under the hood (perhaps this might even be "better" than what could happen) to view fluid levels. Unless the owner is the type that will come unglued unless everything is exactly on the <MAX> mark - operating range... what is that?

Just yesterday I asked one of our guys if he had checked the oil level in a truck..... "not yet" was the reply... Posted Image

Personally... I find it hard to turn down all of those golden opportunities to embarass the piss outta myself....

I'm falling behind in my web based courses - the ones where they tell you to read your work order and then do a quick visual inspection to make sure the truck is OK to drive? Posted Image

Posted Image As the alignment guy.... I learned a long time ago to at least walk around the thing and count the tires....

Keith Browning · October 1, 2009

This is actually the SECOND 6.4L equipped truck THIS WEEK that had no coolant in it. The other one just had the oil changed and apparently checking the fluid levels was an option as the windshield washer fluid was also empty. That truck had the coolers pulled for bench testing, the t-stats removed for inspection as well as the water pump due to a white smoke complaint. I didn't find nuttin wrong wit dat one eider!

rlchv70 · October 1, 2009

Did you test the EGR cooler on the subject truck? Is it possible it hydrolocked to prevent it from starting? After sitting overnight, the cylinder could have drained to allow it to start.

Keith Browning · October 1, 2009

All dry. No steam, no smoke. No water in the intake, none in the exhaust or any in the charge air cooler to boot! The only evidence I found on this truck was a bad radiator. We do a lot of radiators on trucks that previously had the venturi tee recall. So far I have only seen one that resulted in a bad EGR cooler that hadn't self destructed. So I am cautious... but the further I dig, the less I find.

Mikill · October 2, 2009

Did you test the EGR cooler on the subject truck? Is it possible it hydrolocked to prevent it from starting? After sitting overnight, the cylinder could have drained to allow it to start.

If it hydrolocked I'm sure there would be a rod knocking. I have yet to see a 6.4 not bend a rod.

Jim Warman · October 2, 2009

This is actually the SECOND 6.4L equipped truck THIS WEEK that had no coolant in it. The other one just had the oil changed and apparently checking the fluid levels was an option as the windshield washer fluid was also empty. That truck had the coolers pulled for bench testing, the t-stats removed for inspection as well as the water pump due to a white smoke complaint. I didn't find nuttin wrong wit dat one eider!

You sound surprised!?!?!?!

The bottom line is the bottom line.... management pushes for big efficiency... high profits... we need to see that magical return on our investment.

We are continually competing with prostitutes.... we are, to the very last man, hell bent on proving that we can all starve as cheaply as the next guy. We are all hell bent on proving that we can outcheap each other.... we are all hell bent on proving that better is not going to happen....

Again, this is one of those complex things that everyone is going to try and address with a simplistic answer...

How are we doing it? We say "we need more repeat customers". "We need to stand out from other shops". "We need to make people remember us"....

Instead of becoming leaders in the industry.... instead of making our customers aware of false economy..... instead of educating our customer... we will get into a pissing contest with those grossly inferior to us...

We are being penalized for being thorough.... we are being penalized for knowing our customer pay the bills....

Grease nipples aren't getting greased.... levels aren't getting checked... and the people making this nightmare come true are the people that will make life miserable for he who does what is "needed" to realize what management wants but doesn't want....

We are being used.... and we are welcoming it....

rlchv70 · October 2, 2009

Originally Posted By: rlchv70

Did you test the EGR cooler on the subject truck? Is it possible it hydrolocked to prevent it from starting? After sitting overnight, the cylinder could have drained to allow it to start.

If it hydrolocked I'm sure there would be a rod knocking. I have yet to see a 6.4 not bend a rod.

I've seen them both ways. It's possible that the cylinder can flll and prevent the engine from turning over without bending or breaking something.

Keith Browning · October 2, 2009

I've seen them both ways. It's possible that the cylinder can flll and prevent the engine from turning over without bending or breaking something.

However concerning this vehicle it did not stall because coolant got into a cylinder. There would have been damage for sure and the coolers would have to had failed.