Jim Warman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 As a feeble attempt to stop hijacking the previous thread.... Bruce... once you get old (or is that "older"?) you will find that one thing you do very, very well is reminisce... The Boss 429 was a very inpressive sight... even more impressive if you saw one with the valve covers off... But it was the FE series engines that were the most fascinating. It started with the 352 introduced in about 1958 to supplement the Y block engines.... available as 360, 390 406, 410 427 (the 7 liter Ford) and the 428. There was also the 361 and 391 offered in midsized trucks (F600 and F700 IIRC). Most of these were available in two and four barrel attire and some appeared on showroom floors with multiple carbs... two 4 barrels and three 2 barrels were not all that rare (though at prices approaching $500 dollars as an option, they were spendy). Without a doubt, the most intriguing motor would have to be the 427... Most desirable was the side oiler block with a race bread oiul ssystem... IIRC, this was the block you got with the "tunnel port" heads - the pushrods (push tubes to you diesel wieners) passed through the intake ports... in cast in "tunnels". But THE 427 was the SOHC... This engine (along with the Chrysler 2nd generation Hemi.. more later) drove NASCAR into conniption fits and started the steady demise to their current 358 CI engine size limit... but, as usual, I digress... In my reminiscing, I stumbled across this little cornucopia (it IS Thanksgiving in Gods land) http://www.wediditforlove.com/Dunlap.html of drag racing lore.... About half the way down the page, there's a few pics of a Ford Cammer front engine rail car... This is taken after the NHRA fuel ban was lifted.. truly THE Golden Era of Drag racing (unlike the homogenized, mechanical, "timed-clutch-event" racing we see today). However, I understand that this car was, indeed a gasser... For exotic.... the Cammer beats the Boss engines of all sizes hands down... The sidebars (years ago, there was a British TV series called "Up Pompei".... each episode began with Frankie Howerd playing the slave Lurkio unrolling a scroll and saying "the prologue".. the show would be a series of interruptions to that)... The Chrysler Hemi is enjoying it's third generation.... The current generation has squat to do with the 426 and the engines from the era of the horsepower wars (back then stock cars were very much closer to being "stock" cars rather than special built race cars) and the 426 Hemi has nothing to do with the early Hemi(s). I always get fuddled when I think of early Dodges and Desotos... but I do remember being involved with a 331 Hemi and a few 392 Hemis... The big giveaway is the number of head bolts .. also the 392 was a very wide motor. Now... looking at the Cammer... we can be sure we've seen that spark plug arrangement before... Why Ford has chosen to ignore any kind of link to the past while Chrysler plays the Hemi name for all it is worth???? And one last side bar... In the early 50s, Zora Arkus-Duntov (known as the father of the Corvette) designed and marketed cylinder heads for the Ford flathead V8. Made of aluminum with spark plugs in the center of the combustion chamber, these heads could make it hard to distinguish a Chrysler "FirePower" V8 from a Ford flattie conversion in photos of the day. Yeah... that average family sedan vid is awe-inspiring... but, I'm sad to say that this electronically derived, computer generated horsepower is too much like having sex without a partner... Mapping a distributor curve... jet and power valve changes... adjusting valves to affect cam timing... Life was tough... but it was great... Thanks for letting an old guy ramble... Bonus question... who can describe "fuel standoff"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Fuel standoff and intake reversion are kinda related, aren't they? And I am all for horsepower being made with 13:1 or more compression, 250+ degrees of duration at .050, and something that won't idle below about 1000rpm, that the average guy can't figure out how to start, because there's no choke on it, and it's not EFI When you give the accelerator a little rap, that 4500 Dominator (or DominatorS) perched above the high rise single plane intake or tunnel ram should create such a vacuum above the engine compartment, it pulls bystanders closer to the car. Horsepower should be brutal, loud, and unforgiving. I thought there was some revival talk of the Cammer, but I may be wrong. However, as for brutal, here's my buddy Andrew's STREET car. It's the mustang in the close lane. 8.60 on the brakes...the car has gone 7's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Brutal, indeed... nice car... However, having to apply the brake or rely on a throttle stop or a device that backs up the ignition timing or do any other thing to avoid "going too fast" to win a race is plain wrong.... Todays society is busy breeding mediocraty... nuff said... Yes... fuel stand off is the visible symptom of intake reversion.... (gold star for Aaron... taken away for being a spoiler.... ). You must have also noticed that fuel stand off is more evident on engines with "long" cams. I will admit that back then, we didn't dream of running much over 11.5 or 12. Some of that 13+ has come from both fuel improvements and cam timing improvements (but I'm sure there is something in the heads I can't see... ). Hopefully, I'll get the chance to tune the 500 before I get too fucking old... I'm going to buy some viagra and cut them into quarters... I don't want to start pissing on my shoes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Oh yeah, and throttle stops, tapping the brakes, etc, are for GIRLS. Too fast? Dial the fucking car hard! Only reason he was on the brakes is because the car doesn't usually unload the chassis like that. He whacked it harder than usual outta the hole. It was running 7.60's that weekend on previous passes, and of course nobody got any fucking video of that. LOL I like the headsup race nights at Milan, the no ET stuff is neat, too, 'cause guys bet BIG dollars on the stuff, and it's heads up, and nobody knows what it'll run. This car, for instance, has been 8.90's Can't even see the rollcage, can you? There is a 9 second 68-9 nova in these parts with a procharged LS-series motor in it, with dogdish hubcaps, dings in the bodywork, it's ol' grandma green. You'd never suspect a thing. Timing retards are needed for nitrous oxide, only, or to crank over a high compression motor and not put a starter on it after every weekend My current endeavor is going to be somehwere in the 13.2-13.5:1 range, on a small Chevy, on gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 When they started painting your dial in on the windshield is about the time I said phuque it... recreational pharmacology, getting laid and going fast were what I was all about... From where I was sitting, it cost more money to slow a car down than it did to make it to the track... I must be a pretty strange breed of cat... a time slip speaks volumes... if you get a good slip and get beat by something you ain't gonna beat... ya done good.... if you get a shitty slip - ain't nothing matters, anyway. You guys run a pro tree or what? I feel less anguish about that now than I did way back when.... FWIW.. I thought I'd heard about some guys pulling the timing back to slow the car down at the top end... I could be mistaken but then I'm the idiot that can't understand slowing the car down period.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 On the no ET nights, you can run a pro tree, full tree, or armdrop, whichever you prefer. I personally like the full tree on a footbrake car, but if you're running a transbrake a pro tree is nice This is my buddy Chris' Monte Carlo. He runs the local chassis shop. This man's welding is like artwork. It looks like the two pieces of pipe that are welded together are actually one formed piece. The man is a fucking ARTIST with that welder. Car has a 600+ inch big block Ford in it. Should be a mean rig when it's ready to go. It's real close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I will post up some more local hot rods when I get a few more pictures. FWIW - the above is my hotrod. Ignore the butchery that is attempting to pass for wiring, that was in there when I bought it. Hoping to get out playing soon. Trans is ready to go (JW 400, reverse manual, transbrake, 3500 billet converter). I'm going to put a mild stroker smallblock in it for now, until I can get my big motor together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ah. Found it. http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0611_72_nova_w2w/index.html Thousand horsepower. Column shift, bench seat with ratty old cover, mid 70's steering wheel cover with that plastic string that wraps around it to hold it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Wow. That is one bad ass sleeper. The photographs really show how complex this car is. You would NEVER suspect what is hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I've seen it in person. You'd think nothing of it, like the article says, it sounds like a standard big block with flowmasters on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Quote: Looking under the hood for the first time is like finding a stick of dynamite and a bottle of whiskey in your dear-old grandmother's purse; Hey granny can I take the car to the store(Mac's Milk) and get some milk and eggs? Yeah right!!! 16 Injectors if I read that right, thats some (Nothing better to do) retired engineer at work for sure. We got one of those (retired engineers) with a white Ranger powered by a 502 twin turbo'd BBC. Last dyno run was just over 1600HP. Right now he is in the process of punching and stroking a 572ci up to @ 600ci and is looking to get it over 2000HP. I think Aaron seen this one at Autorama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 ^^^ That ranger was OUT OF CONTROL badass. I have some pics of it somewhere, if I can find 'em I'll post 'em up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 While online in the chat room the other night we talked about turbocharging a lawnmower(Any stooges out there?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 How about this for power.... Or this one, Jim will appreciate this one. One last....Jim was thinking of these I'm sure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 And this would be the old boy's old hotrod: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Or the Ole boy's newer hot rod... http://vodpod.com/watch/1413706-bad-ass-plum-crazy-purple-twin-turbo-plymouth-hemi-cuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Whachutalkinboutwillis? That's my dad's old car, I posted up LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Nobody can see how full the wheel wells are? Or the T bars... I'm trying real hard to pretend I can't see the cage... Pretty close to the ultimate sleeper, for sure... Let me furble around and see if I can find something here... Somewhere, I have some RoadRunner pics... the car will pull the front wheels but it isn't caged... don't worry about them cracks in the metal, son - just get in, hold on and shut the fuck up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 You young'uns... In all honesty, my mind kept reaching back to Jungle Jim Liberman (actually Jungle Pam... but what can I say). Today we have some very powerful cars... but they are like yogurt and tofu.... Electronically refined, they take people and knowledge out of the picture.... tap a computer key here, buy some bolt on thing there... done deal... no knowledge required - but bring your wallet... "Back in the day"... multi engine diggers... "tipping the can".... 71 series Detroit Diesel supercharger (do you realize that, for several years, the exchange price of the blower was LESS than the core deposit?).... "back in the day" the driver would pedal the car just about every run... Cars were "gut bomb" burgers and fries. You couldn't buy a lot of parts... you made 'em.... you couldn't buy a timing curve or a fuel curve or a fuel curve off the internet... you went in search of your own... Matter of fact... you couldn't buy a lot of stuff because you didn't have the coin.... Todays world... you and I are affluent.... yesterday.... nobody was in real good shape, but everyone 'got by'.... Yesterday, we didn't have a real big population of "needy" people... today they are a burgeoning social class. And now I am threatening to hijack my own thread.... If you do not learn from your history - you are DOOMED to repeat it... Yes... I'm fucking talking to you... Jungle Pam was bitchin', the modern world sucks and everybody wants to get paid more for doing less, pay less yet get more.... do all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons.... get forgiven for it.... and act indignant when someone else breaks the moral code we have already broken... Did I mention that lusting after Pam was a 'minor' sin???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well when I was a young pup mechanic just knee high to a grasshopper (there weren't any stink bugs when dirt was still white) when wheels were still square and a burger and fries cost just a nickel... we used to have to drive 10 miles up hill in the snow backward to get to the parts store... WITH BALD BIAS PLY TYERS NO LESS!!!! You young-uns don't know how good you got it nowadays with your plug in power programers and snow tyers! Bet you have heat too... speakin of heat I remember when the Devil came around asking to borrow a ligher... Of course I noticed the full wheel wells in the rear and the traction rods and I am sure if it were daylight the roll cage would not be too difficult to pick out. But on a passing glance I would probably not give what appears to be a rolling pile of shit a second look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 The 8 second primer/faded blue Chevelle wins, AFAIK. I will post up detailed pics of the car later tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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