300 to 400 ICP Pressure on a 2003

mchan68 · November 14, 2009

Well well well. It couldn't happen at a worse time. It appears our coffee truck has poo-pooed his high pressure pump. Just as I was about to arrange getting that 2008 POS F-550 into my bay in preparation for the cab removal, I am informed that our coffee truck is rolling in on the hook.

IDS test. P2290 and P0272 are the DTCs. Monitor PIDs. IPR climbs to 85% cranking, ICP_DES @ 1305 and ICP fluctuates between high 300's to low 400's. Truck is an '03 with 255,000 kms. on the clock. ICP volts @ KOEO is 0.22, so I know it's not the ICP sensor (no P2285 DTC).

I know I've read a lot of threads where '03 model years with low ICP no-starts have always ended up being the HPOP. My question is, is there any quick and easy test that can be done that will confirm with 100% certainty that the HPOP is fried? Given the fact that this is retail, I want to be 100% certain before delivering the wonderful news. Oil changes have always been done at our store since the truck was new. I think I read somewhere that to test the high pressure oil system requires removal of both valve covers and to dead head the pump. Is there a specific value that pump output should be?

I just LOVE Friday afternoons like this!!! Posted Image

Bruce Amacker · November 14, 2009

What makes you so sure the IPR isn't stuck open? They will build 200ishPSI when they are.

I'd suggest some basic diag before you hang parts.

From my class:

What is your ICPV cranking?

I suggest you look at ICPV as your primary PID and ICP as your secondary. Get used to looking at ICP VOLTAGE on a no-start, as the PCM can substitute values.

Pull the oil filter out and crank the engine to see if the LP pump is working.

Check base engine oil pressure cranking.

Does the oil gauge on the dash come up cranking?

If it is .4v, (200 PSI) it may be a stuck IPR solenoid. The engine will build 200PSI with the IPR unplugged or stuck open.

If it’s .6v, but not the required .8v, (500 PSI) cranking, it may be a HP leak.

Two common problems causing this- large HP leak or a stuck IPR. There is no good diagnostic for this other than:

Air Check

Visual looking for leak with the valve cover off

Replacement with known good parts

It's a bummer that's it's a 2003, 'cause the VC has to come off for an air test to confirm the lack of leaks and the IPR is working. Posted Image

Good Luck!

Posted Image

Aaron · November 14, 2009

I remembered the damn pressure for the longest time with the wrecked IPR.

2....60 something?

I had a run of bagged IPR's for awhile and I had the number written down somewhere - and now I can't remember it.

EVERY one had the same ICP reading.

Alex Bruene · November 14, 2009

Don't forget, a leaking high-pressure oil pump to cover d-ring can result in that kind of pressure as well.

Aaron · November 14, 2009

^^^ good call

mchan68 · November 14, 2009

Don't forget, a leaking high-pressure oil pump to cover d-ring can result in that kind of pressure as well.

That's actually what I was thinking Alex. Just reading through the PPT to test the HPOP output and high pressure oil system diag, is making me wonder how I'm going to test this thing with EOT temps cold if this puppy doesn't start on Monday morning. This is all the while I've been instructed to carry out the repair "as economically as possible". In other words, fix it but don't expect to get paid for it.

BrunoWilimek · November 17, 2009

.

My question is, is there any quick and easy test that can be done that will confirm with 100% certainty that the HPOP is fried? Given the fact that this is retail, I want to be 100% certain before delivering the wonderful news.

Pressurize the high pressure oil system with the oil filter removed from the housing. If the HP pump is bad, oil/air will blow into the oil filter housing. Posted Image

Alex Bruene · November 17, 2009

Just reading through the PPT to test the HPOP output and high pressure oil system diag, is making me wonder how I'm going to test this thing with EOT temps cold if this puppy doesn't start on Monday morning.

Perhaps NOT using the PPT, and using your brain and knowledge of the system might help. I rarely (if ever) use a PPT for high pressure oil diagnosis. Hot or cold, a high pressure oil leak is a leak. The engine may start when it's cold, but that doesn't mean the leak isn't there, it just means the oil is thick enough to overcome the leak.

mchan68 · November 20, 2009

Perhaps NOT using the PPT, and using your brain and knowledge of the system might help. I rarely (if ever) use a PPT for high pressure oil diagnosis. Hot or cold, a high pressure oil leak is a leak. The engine may start when it's cold, but that doesn't mean the leak isn't there, it just means the oil is thick enough to overcome the leak.

I may not have worked on as many 6.0Ls as perhaps most of the members here, but I AM well aware of how the high pressure oil system operates on these vehicles. Given that I see probably far fewer 6.0Ls (or any diesels for that matter) in my shop, let alone an even rarer '03 6.0L low ICP concern, I was hoping for some tips that would help expedite the process of the repair. This is assistance that would've been gladly returned if I were in a position to be of some help. But, anyhow a high pressure oil pump and updated cover later, and the truck is fixed. By the way, while I was waiting for parts to arrive, I devised my own "air pressure test" just to verify there are no leaks in any other areas of the high pressure oil system for those who care:

Posted Image

Using a rubber tip blow gun, I applied shop air pressure directly into the branch tube. This method of course, requires removal of the HPOP but at least confirms that there are no other high pressure oil system leaks, leaving only the HPOP as the only possible source. This is also of course after you've verified there are no issues with the base lube oil system supply.

blown99 · November 20, 2009

So how are you guys dead heading the 04 and up pumps without pulling the valve covers? On the international side it has us installing plugs in the high pressure oil manifolds which obviously requires removing the valve covers.

Aaron · November 20, 2009

Diagnostic dice.

Mikill · November 20, 2009

So how are you guys dead heading the 04 and up pumps without pulling the valve covers? On the international side it has us installing plugs in the high pressure oil manifolds which obviously requires removing the valve covers.

There are plugs that go into the oil manifolds on the Ford side as well.

This week was the first hp oil leak concern I have had in awhile. They don't seem to come into our shop that often anymore. We get alot of 6.4's though.

Keith Browning · November 20, 2009

There is no other way than the one you described.

LARRY BRUDZYNSKI · November 20, 2009

Using a rubber tip blow gun, I applied shop air pressure directly into the branch tube. This method of course, requires removal of the HPOP but at least confirms that there are no other high pressure oil system leaks, leaving only the HPOP as the only possible source. This is also of course after you've verified there are no issues with the base lube oil system supply.

Mike did you regulate the air pressure down or did you use full blown shop air?

mchan68 · November 20, 2009

Mike did you regulate the air pressure down or did you use full blown shop air?

Flow blown shop air pressure (about 150 psi).

GregKneupper · November 21, 2009

I have an old stc fitting that I installed an air nipple onto to test the rest of the high pressure oil system. Of course it only works on later 6.0's. I just bolt it to the branch tube and then directly connect the shop air hose to it. Works great for verifying that the branch tube is not cracked as well as detecting other possible leaks in the system.