Aaron Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Truck in my bay, down on water, lots of white smoke, smells like antifreeze -- did some prelim. diag couldn't find anything. Pulled EBP sensor nothin pulled EGRT nothin. I pulled the coolers off on the advise of the hotline -- no dampness in the coolers. They don't leak in the dunk tank. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Request Form Details: Description of vehicle concern: Customer concern is a lack of power and white smoke from the exhaust Diagnostics performed: KOEO, KOER, EGR test, etc. DTC Codes: P0404, P042D, P1335 Parts replaced: NONE YET Tech's question: Have removed the EGRT sensor and the EBP sensor to check for antifreeze -- the white smoke smells like a combination of coolant and diesel exhaust. Are EGR cooler failures becoming commonplace on these engines? I put a radiator and thermostats in this unit at 26343km, on the road test I found no smoke or lack of power. In the process of removing the EGR valve to check for coolant when the tool exploded on itself so I am awaiting shipment of a new tool. Can the cooler fail after this extended period or are you typically seeing cooler failure when the radiator is run low? I have no coolant in the oil indicating a front cover cavitation issue, just looking for knowns or any diagnostic direction before I pull the coolers off to bench test them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The EGR valve responds to active commands at the present time, and cycyling the EGR valve seems to have little or no effect on the smoking concern. Thanks in advance! Hotline response: Aaron, The coolers can be compromised (the horizontal cooler in particular) when the system is low on coolant. Since coolant smell is noted from the exhaust, and coolant in the exhaust system will not be a symptom of head gasket issues, EGR cooler fault is the most likely cause of coolant smoke from the exhaust. Off vehicle EGR cooler tests are outlined in section 303-08 of the workshop manual. Replace faulty coolers as found. With multiple cooling system issues on this vehicle, it is recommended to inspect the thermostats for elongation, and remove the water pump to inspect for cavitation/pitting. Replace the thermostats. Replace the water pump and front cover, in addition to the thermostats, if pitting is found. Be sure to flush the system using VC-9 per the workshop manual. If the EGR valve cannot be removed from from the intake elbow, it will be necessary to replace the elbow in addition to the EGR valve if fault is found. See TSB 09-19-10 for the newest PCM calibration that applies to P1335 and P0404 that set when running the KOER self test. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional Diag/Comments Comment from: technician Comment Date: 12/7/2009 2:26:25 PM Just for clarification, I replaced the thermostats about 2,000kms ago, are you advising I inspect and replace again? I will pull the coolers and bench test them and see what I come up with. Thanks for your help! Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 12/7/2009 2:38:20 PM Aaron, It is only recommended to replace them if found elongated or if front cover cavitation is found. Otherwise, continue with addressing the suspect EGR cooler(s). Comment from: technician Comment Date: 12/7/2009 3:18:55 PM Should inspection of the exhaust aftertreatment system and converter be performed to inspect for coolant contamination? If coolant is found in the DPF or CAT what repair avenue do I take? Thanks again! Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 12/7/2009 3:26:00 PM Aaron, Yes, an inspection of the DOC and DPF is needed as white smoke with an odor of coolant often confirms contamination. If the presence of coolant is confirmed, replace both the DOC and DPF as the contamination will greatly reduce the effectiveness of regen. Update the form should further assistance be needed. Comment from: technician Comment Date: 12/8/2009 12:02:52 PM Have both coolers of vehicle and I am seeing no bubbles or hearing any loss from the horizontal or vertical cooler -- Is there something Im missing here? Do I need to apply some heat to these to simulate engine temperatures? Please advise. Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 12/8/2009 12:29:51 PM Aaron, We have seen issues where the EGR coolers may only leak when hot. If able, please pressure test hot. Please call if need further assistance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional comments or diagnostic info You have 950 characters remaining for your response... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Call Log: Calls to hotline for this vehicle: 12/8/2009 12:35:00 PM - Tech said: Tech has verified a coolant loss with white coolant smoke. The EGR coolers were removed and pressure tested individually with no leaks found at this time. When the cooler were removed, the interior of the horizontal appeared dry, but the top of the vertical cooler had a moist appearance. 12/8/2009 12:35:00 PM - Hotline recommended: Advised tech to continue to check the coolers hot if possible. Also try securing the cooler straps with their mounts and tighten to specification when pressure testing. The clamping force of the cooler straps may help reveal a leak. If a leak is evident, replace the coolers as needed. 12/9/2009 1:07:00 PM - Tech said: Tech calling with same concern of the vehicle expelling white smoke from the exhaust and a noted loss of power. Tech has performed all previous diagnosis for coolant loss and notes pressure testing of both EGR coolers finds no leaks. Tech has confirmed previous replacement of both thermostats as well as the radiator. 12/9/2009 1:07:00 PM - Hotline recommended: Advised tech the most common cause for this fault is an internal fault with the horizontal EGR cooler which may only occur once the component is hot. Tech to remove the thermostats and inspect for possible elongation. If fault confirmed, tech to remove the water pump to allow inspection for front cover cavatation. If this is confirmed, tech to replace the front cover/water pump/both thermostats as well as the horizontal EGR cooler. Tech to flush the cooling system with 2 qts of VC-9. Advised tech to also replace the DOC and DPF as the coolant contamination will degrade the effects of regen. Print date: 12/9/2009 9:06:49 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Just a long shot here but i wonder if its possible for water to leak internally in the water cooled egr valves? If it still has a water cooled one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikill Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 You say it smells like coolant and is low on coolant so I agree that I would be going after a coolant leak somewhere but I have been bitten by a turbo that leaked clear fluid out of the exhaust and had alot of white smoke. How that happened with the black oil in the pan I have no idea but I removed the crossover tube for the hp turbo and the compressor wheel had a large amount of play in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Just a long shot here but i wonder if its possible for water to leak internally in the water cooled egr valves? If it still has a water cooled one? Did I miss something here? Did the water cooled EGRs go away? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yes Bruce. Late last year service parts and production engines no longer run coolant through the EGR valve and they come with instructions to rerout the degas hoses. I attached the 6.4L EGR Valve Replacement Job Aid for you. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlchv70 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 It is possible that the coolers will only leak when hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan302 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I have seen that on a 6.0. Damn this truck makes me crazy I finaly found the EGR cooler was bad by using coolant dye. I road test the truck hard and remove the EGR valve. With black light, i have found coolant presence on the valve. It may be possible on the 6.4 to,but wich one of the 2 is fail ??? Maybe if you try to heat the cooler a bit with the gaz wrench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hotline seems to think if I chuck a horiz. cooler at it it'll fix it. I dunno. Had the cooler on pressure for 2 days. Nothin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Give it another couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Fuckhead... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Run the torch up its ass long enough it'll leak!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlchv70 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The horizontal cooler is under more stress, it is more likely to fail. I have only rarely seen the vertical cooler fail. I've had some success with using EXTREMELY hot, scalding water when they don't leak with warm water. Of course, take precautions with this. Using dye to detect a leaking cooler is an interesting method. Might be worth a shot next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Quote: 12/8/2009 12:35:00 PM - Hotline recommended: Advised tech to continue to check the coolers hot if possible. Also try securing the cooler straps with their mounts and tighten to specification when pressure testing. The clamping force of the cooler straps may help reveal a leak. If a leak is evident, replace the coolers as needed. Clamping force of cooler straps????? Am I reading to much into this or are they giving us a clue as to why they are failing???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Got this heap done today. New horiz cooler, EGR valve cause I broke it trying to remove it, new DPF and CAT from contamination. Runs good. No smoke. It's sitting in my driveway right now, and now my truck isn't good enough because Amanda's seen a Harley super duty up close, and my truck is just an XLT. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Uh oh. $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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