coolent loss

[clint80]

i am new to this site, havent found a lot of posts on this- when testing for coolent loss under warr, you vac test the system and it fails,so you would test off veh egr cooler,it fails then replace it, then put together and recheck for head gaskets. so if it is cust pay is there any way to tell if it is head gaskets leaking before servicing egr cooler so i am not removing the intake twice?

[Keith Browning]

First, Welcome to the DTS.

 

Second, there are many topics on this. You will discover that this crowd often takes a topic and adds a lot to it... with that said, try the search function and be specific, using parenthesis helps the search work better. Try searching "coolant loss" "puking" "coolant overflow" but most importantly you need to spell coolant correctly. You might even try looking for the relevant TSB numbers. We have even discussed the diagnostic procedure and the scenario you described is not all that common but it does happen. Sooooo, to answer your question, yes, you may indeed need to replace the EGR and oil coolers and then diagnose/discover a head gasket issue.

 

Trust me, there is a lot on this here!

[eastendpowerstroke]

Unfortunately EGR cooler failure and Head Gasket Failure exhibit exactly the same symptoms. So if you test the EGR cooler and it fails you should be replacing both the EGR and OIL coolers.

After replacing the failed coolers you can vac/pressure test the engine by capping the fitting that connects the oil and EGR coolers and any other hoses disconnected, and applying vac/pressure to the coolant port that the big black oring sits on before reinstalling the intake.

I don't know if this testing would be very conclusive unless the head gaskets are blown real bad.

The best thing to do is to be CLEAR and make the customer aware of the strong possibility that the head gaskets may also be bad and there is no definitive way to test them with out ruling the EGR cooler first.

 

And welcome to the DTS the experience of members and the info available here is world class,if your not careful you may learn a few things.

[Bruce Amacker]

Welcome to DTS, Clint. You'll find a lot of helpful people here without the corporate bias found on other websites.

 

 

I usually do the coolant pressure test- "tee" in a 30lb pressure gauge into the degas bottle line with a long hose going to the dash or windshield. Road test the truck and romp on it, the pressure should rise gradually up to the 17lb release point of the rad cap. If the pressure gauge jumps up at WOT, or cycles between 13-17lb, it shows excess pressure buildup in the cooling system. 99% of the time this indicates head gaskets. During this RT, compare ECT and EOT under heavy load to identify a restricted oil cooler. I still use 25*F temp differential, even though Ford changed it to 15*F temp differential. The temp differential test is only valid on an RT, not in the shop.

 

Other helpful hints from my notes, most of which you probably already know:

 

Suspect a leaking EGR cooler? Look at the EGR valve for wet carbon. If it’s wet or shiny, replace the EGR cooler.

 

Suspect a leaking EGR cooler? Drill a 3/16” hole on the exhaust manifold and see if coolant escapes. Pressure test the cooling system while the hole is open and see if it drips. Tap the hole and plug it when done. One of my friends in the aftermarket does this test and swears by it.

 

Pressurize the cooling system, raise the back end of the truck, and remove the EGR valve. Look inside and see if it is moist- if it is, the cooler is leaking.

 

Beware: a leaking EGR cooler may result from the root cause of leaking head gaskets (especially if the truck has been modified) or a sticking turbo.

 

Run the engine while blocking the tailpipe tightly with a rag. If more bubbles occur in the degas bottle, your EGR cooler is suspect.

 

Suck down the system with a RadKit Plus cooling system evacuator, and listen to the EGR cooler with a stethoscope. If it is leaking, it will commonly whistle very quietly.

 

Using coolant dye, road test the truck hard and then remove the EGR valve. Use your black light on the valve and bore area to identify if coolant (dye) is present.

 

Hooting noise during and just after hard acceleration? The hooting is likely the coolant cap venting.

 

 

[*]Oil coolers often restrict, causing a lack of coolant to the EGR cooler.

[*]Coolant leaks that allow the level to get too low and melt down the cooler

[*]Performance modifications that cause excessive exhaust temperatures

[*]Aeration from head gasket failures

Read TSB 8-03-07 before starting.

Check EOT vs ECT temps before starting.

A restricted engine oil cooler will damage the new EGR cooler immediately!

I recommend replacing the EGR cooler, engine oil cooler, IAT2 sensor, EGR valve, and have the intake manifold boiled or tanked to remove carbon buildup from the EGR. Permatex Gasket Remover in a spray can works great to dissolve the carbon in the intake.

Verify the Vistronic fan clutch works properly!

Inspect for soot at the y-pipes that might indicate an exhaust leak, as it’s easy to see/fix this now with the top of the engine apart.

 

 

 

 

 

Any additions or comments welcome.

 

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[Aaron]

That must be that big ass aluminum sump some of the other guys were talking about in 6-750's and VT-365's on the Inford board.

[Bruce Amacker]

Good catch- yes, that was an F-650 motor evidence by the pan, gear driven PS pump, Allison bellhousing, and numerous other small details.

 

 

[clint80]

thanks for the welcome, this site is great! i have found a ton of good info here. i think i am going to leave it up to the customer to see if they want to do coolers first or the the whole job with head gaskets. this one fails vac test right away and went and drove with pressure gauge,at wot gauge jumps and flucuates 13 to 17 and eot ect split is 25 degrees. it dosnt smoke, just blows coolant out the cap. thanks for all the info