Aaron Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Latest TSB? 21.1 hours to diag by removing all 8 injectors and replacing both cylinder heads in an econoline which includes r&r the engine? Hoorah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 How would you like to be a brand new diesel tech and pulling this job? Talk about getting thrown to the wolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 No shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 As an aside, the newb there has a very nice bum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Latest TSB? 21.1 hours to diag by removing all 8 injectors and replacing both cylinder heads in an econoline which includes r&r the engine? Hoorah! You've got to be kidding me. What is the TSB number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 TSB 09-26-1 6.0L DIESEL FUEL IN ENGINE COOLANT DIAGNOSTICS - BUILT ON OR BEFORE 9/30/2008 Publication Date: December 17, 2009 FORD: 2003-2005 Excursion 2003-2007 F-Super Duty 2004-2008 E-350, E-450, E-550 This article supersedes TSB 08-23-8 to update the Service Procedure. ISSUE: Some 2003-2007 F-Super Duty 250-750, 2003-2005 Excursion and 2004-2008 E-Series vehicles built on or before 9/30/2008 may exhibit fuel in engine coolant, due to leaks in the cylinder head fuel injector area. Symptoms may include fuel in engine coolant and coolant expulsion from the degas bottle. ACTION: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition. SERVICE PROCEDURE Inspect the degas bottle for evidence of fuel in the engine coolant and not oil or combustion gases. If diesel fuel is present, refer to the following Service Procedure. If not, follow normal diagnostics and/or other applicable articles. NOTE: IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ENSURE A COMPLETE FLUSHING OF THE ENGINE COOLING SYSTEM IS PERFORMED TO REMOVE ALL CONTAMINANTS FOLLOWING REPAIR. Drain coolant from cooling system. NOTE: FAILURE TO DRAIN THE COOLING SYSTEM PRIOR TO PRESSURIZATION WILL RESULT IN AN INABILITY TO DIAGNOSE LEAK SOURCE. Remove all injectors from both cylinder heads. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 313-04C. Wipe injector bore clean of oil and fuel. Fit the cooling system pressure tester, refer to WSM, Section 303-03. (Do not add coolant) Apply 10 psi (69 kPa) of air pressure to sealed cooling system. It is suggested to use a hand operated pressure tester or regulated shop air with tee in degas hose to degas bottle. NOTE: FAILURE TO DRAIN THE COOLING SYSTEM PRIOR TO PRESSURIZATION WILL PREVENT BUBBLES FROM FORMING WHEN SPRAYED WITH SOAP AND WATER SOLUTION. Spray a 50/50 mixture of dish soap and water generously inside each injector bore. Ensure cylinder head injector bore casting is coated with a soap layer. Inspect each injector bore for bubbles. A light and mirror or bore-scope may aid in pinpointing a leak location. Most common area is between the two injector fuel sealing O-rings in the sealing area on the side nearest the cylinder glow plug. (Figure 1) Figure 1 - Article 09-26-1 Replace cylinder head if leaking through casting. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01C. Flush cooling system, refer to other applicable service bulletins for proper cooling system flush procedures. OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: 08-23-01 WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage IMPORTANT: Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part. OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 092601A 2003 F-Super Duty, Excursion 6.0L: Replace The Right Cylinder Head, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 12.0 Hrs. 092601A 2004-2007 F-Super Duty, 2004-2005 Excursion 6.0L: Replace The Right Cylinder Head, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 12.6 Hrs. 092601A 2004-2008 Econoline 6.0L: Replace The Right Cylinder Head, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 20.0 Hrs. 092601B 2004-2008 Econoline 6.0L: Replace The Left Cylinder Head, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 19.9 Hrs. 092601B 2004-2007 F-Super Duty, 2004-2005 Excursion 6.0L: Replace The Left Cylinder Head, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 11.8 Hrs. 092601B 2003 F-Super Duty, Excursion 6.0L: Replace The Left Cylinder Head, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 11.3 Hrs. 092601C 2003 F-Super Duty, Excursion 6.0L: Replace Both Cylinder Heads, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 15.0 Hrs. 092601C 2004-2007 F-Super Duty, 2004-2005 Excursion 6.0L: Replace Both Cylinder Heads, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 15.6 Hrs. 092601C 2004-2008 Econoline 6.0L: Replace Both Cylinder Heads, Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In This Article (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 21.6 Hrs. DEALER CODING BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE 6049 01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 An extra 1.6 to change BOTH heads instead of one. That deck surface will be good and clean. I can see a lot of 'stream lined' diagnosis happening here.... "Oh fuck -- fuel in coolant. needs a pair of heads" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Fuck Sakes! I don't even know what to say anymore. Thieving bunch of Mother Fuckin Savage bastard Warranty Nazi's. Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Dammit Aaron, You just made me run out of alcohol reading this shit. Now I gotta run to the liquor store and stock up again. Fuck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 You wanna know what makes it better? We've sold TWO 6.0 Econolines at my store. My SM told me today: "If you're gonna lose your fucking shirt on something like that, I'll tell them to take it back to where they bought it from, if you don't want to fix it. No point in going into something knowing you're gonna get thrown under the bus for the labor time...do not use with any other labor operations. Nice." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Call your FSE and see if he can help you diag it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 C'mon, Dwayne. Tell us how you really feel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 It does call for related articles - TSB 08-23-01 which will give you another 5.4 hours to flush the cooling system on an econoline. grand total of 27 hours to do heads and flush cooling system on e-van = not nearly enough time.....not sure what retail would be, since I don't do many e-vans anymore, but we charge around 30 for heads on a f-series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I'll tell them to take it back to where they bought it We do that with all diesel engine warranty repairs, unless we've taken over the retail servicing of the vehicle. If you didn't buy it from us, and/or don't service/maintain with us, we won't do the warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 If you didn't buy it from us, and/or don't service/maintain with us, we won't do the warranty. That is also our only exception. If we're servicing your truck regularly, no issue. Current truck in my bay for hard start cold. Injectors don't rattle cold. Only oil change receipt he can provide is at 49k km. got 138k km on it and 3200 hours. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Back up a minute..... Are you professional techicians that are factory trained telling me that you would turn a poor customer away if they haven't brought their fine running truck into your dealership(stealership) for a warranty concern at the end of warranty????? NO WAY!!!! I don't believe it Sorry guys had too....... Not really funny though....Some of them have maintained them....Maybe not with us but has been maintained none the less.... Might deserve a look if it merits with maintanence files.... Can't kill all the claims....Obviously there is a concern if FORD has a TSB on them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Some of us can't afford to turn away work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Back up a minute.....Obviously there is a concern if FORD has a TSB on them.... Yup, there sure is. These fuckers (diesels) are bleeding Ford dry and Ford is trying to put a cap on it by capping it off at our end. With TSB's like this, it's going to be hard to attract new diesel apprentices into the Ford scene. I already see young guys in the trade saying they're not even gonna bother with the diesel certification and I have been seeing it for the last "SEVEN" Years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Dodson Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: LARRYATSTI Back up a minute.....Obviously there is a concern if FORD has a TSB on them.... Yup, there sure is. These fuckers (diesels) are bleeding Ford dry and Ford is trying to put a cap on it by capping it off at our end. With TSB's like this, it's going to be hard to attract new diesel apprentices into the Ford scene. I already see young guys in the trade saying they're not even gonna bother with the diesel certification and I have been seeing it for the last "SEVEN" Years. agreed, why should i get my cert. only to haveto work twice as hard to make the same amount or possibly less money...sure i will make more per hour but with crap like this you cant even break even. It may not be as much of a shock to techs who have been working on these since release and have lots of experiance but for a new tech to do this crap and make a living off of it...no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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