Keith Browning Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Reductant id the term Ford is using for Diesel Exhaust Fluid and the system that manages the fluid. Reductant is injected into the Selective Catalyst Reduction system to reduce NOx emissions. Some facts include: [*]Reductant is 32.5% urea/water solution [*]When Reductant is injected into the exhaust there is a chemical reaction that converts NOx to N2 and H2o [*]The freeze point of Reductant is 12*F or -11*C [*]The NOx sensor and module can detect if the incorrect fluid has been put into the system [*]The Reductant heaters are controlled by the GPCM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Has anyone priced out a gallon of this stuff yet? I thought my eyes were deceiving me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 the 2.5 gallon jug lists for $19.95 USD So if the reservoir holds 5 gallons it adds $40 in parts to an already spendy lof. And you had better believe I'm not filling them for free, so the labor is gonna jump accordingly too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 That's not really a crazy price, the best price I've seen so far was at a truck stop where a 2.5 gallon jug was $9.95. At Mercedes Benz, one dealer quoted me $14.95 for a two litre bottle and another charged me $7.00 for the same bottle. The fluid has very little odor to it, no color, and seems like diluted Windex. It is slippery like soap when on your fingers and dries to a soapy residue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I am a little surprised that it is that expensive. I have seen it at my local truck stop for $3.50 or so a gallon. I figured it would start off cheap so people wouldnt be hesitant to try it out. If you let spilled urea sit for a while it will form crystals almost like a really poorly maintained set of battery terminals. It cleans up easily with water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 And you had better believe I'm not filling them for free, so the labor is gonna jump accordingly too So you don't fill washer bottles for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Quote: So you don't fill washer bottles for free? I do enough charity like washer fluid, wiper replacements, multi point inspections, tire pressure adjustments, free rotations if the customer bought tires from us, and air filter replacements. Perhaps this has made me somewhat cynical, but I will not be handling urea for free on top of everything else. Especially when I'm only paid .4 (24 min) for a lof that includes most of the aforementioned items. It's already a losing proposition when I get a lof at my dealer. If the customer doesn't want to pay extra to have me fill it, I can direct them to the retail parts counter. Customers know how to fill their washer fluid too, I think they can figure this out. Far be it from me to discourage anyone who wants to do this for free from doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 You're right. The lube guys can fill the urea tanks. They have us resetting TPMS lights for free. We get .2 for an oil change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Dodson Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 with the multipoint??? wow thats a kick in the face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 We get .2 for an oil change. On a diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 We get .2 for an oil change.I would outright refuse to do it for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Don't feel so bad, a friend of mine working at a GM dealer gets paid .05 for an oil change. Yes a HALF a tenth. Including their "inspection". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 .3 on a diesel. By the time you rack the vehicle,drain the oil, order parts, run back to parts because they did not turn the oil on............I'm already in the hole .5 We are not technicians anymore. Grease monkey has come full circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 We are not technicians anymore. Grease monkey has come full circle. Perhaps we can at least avoid becoming pro bono piss monkeys. I have already talked to my SM about the unique aspects of 6.7 maintenance and advised him to formulate a new menu price for a 6.7 lof including reductant replenishment and recommended the labor be 1.0 for the whole shebang. The added cost of the reductant is going to cause them to make an adjustment in the menu pricing anyway for the 6.7... I figured I would plant this seed in his mind before he finalized it and sent out flyers without giving any thought to the added effort involved by the flat rate tech. He's a good guy, but I've found that salaried members of middle management can often forget that those of us who actually fix these things aren't salaried - our entire paycheck depends on billable hours produced. I don't know about you guys, but I feel my efforts have value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't know about you guys, but I feel my efforts have value. I not only agree but I'll add that your opinions and input to how your dealer does business is also valuable as it should be. If a management team has no idea that these services require extra labor charges then how could we expect them to change it? As I see it there is a lot of small stuff being tagged onto the mundane oil service and now we have more. I am sure that servicing the reductant is no major deal but it does require extra steps and time. A diesel oil change at my dealer will pay you 0.4 and the Quality Care inspection will gain you an extra 0.2 - yes, my dealer pays us because they know how valuable the QC inspections are and we have sold a lot of work from using them. While an LOF and QCI will get me 0.6 and I too find such a service is a loss where productivity is concerned. Adding reductant servicing is simply making it worse. I agree that an hour is fair to both the tech and the customer provided that you include the QCI and the vehicle gets a genuine detailed inspection by a genuine Ford trained technician. As for the cost of a service, a pricey oil change just got more expensive. This is to be expected when you consider the maintenance requirements of the 2011 Ford Super Duty with a Power Stroke diesel engine. They are high quality vehicles with a high performance high tech diesel engine with heavy emissions controls. The bar has been raised and now, so has the bottom line. One good thing is that the reductant system should not create any problems for the do-it-yourselfer provided they don't try cutting corners with the fluid. I do wonder if there will be some way to test the reductant solution in the service bay by means of a test strip or a hydrometer. This will be valuable in diagnosing reductant quality issues because, well, people do stupid things sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 If you let spilled urea sit for a while it will form crystals almost like a really poorly maintained set of battery terminals. It cleans up easily with water. Great, now we'll have all the fucking tweakers buying it up to make some new sort of meth with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Not sure if you guys have seen SVB 2010-7N or the Rotunda DEF dispenser flier? Handling this shit is NOT going to be an option... It is common for us to have to add fuel to trucks so we can road test them comfortably and I can see low DEF levels being a similar concern. As far as "oil changes" we get about .7 last I looked - a "decent" oil change takes nearly an hour. Some of that time is spent draining the water separator.... some of that time is spent putting air in the spare tire that never gets checked.... some of that time is spent looking for grease zerks on any possible aftermarket repair parts... All of that time is spent showing the customer we are conscientious, thorough and caring.... Always.... ALWAYS find one small thing you can do for free... and play it gently. back to the reductant... If we fill it at the time of service or what have you, we should be somewhat assured that "bad" reductant isn't going to be a real big problem..... Oh, don't worry... it'll still happen.. But at least we can exercise a modicum of control for our loyal customers. FWIW... everything we do has value (or should have.... ). Sometimes we can fold that value up and stuff it in our jeans... Sometimes that value extrapolates into "when can <my favourite tech> work on my truck"? It can be hard to quantify at times. All customers are created equal... some are more equal than others. Me? Lately "I fix $6 haircuts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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