ponyboy Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 i have this 7.3l no start ngs shows up to 2000 psi icp when cranking and rpm about 170. a outside shop replaced ipr valve and fuel pick up pump it sounds at times like its about to start nut never dose its a ambulance with 254696 miles any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 do you know why they replaced the fuel pick up? do you have fuel pressure when cranking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Yes, check fuel pressure/quality as a start. Don't rely on ICP as a diag tool on a no start, only ICPV, especially on an ambulance. ICPV should be .18-.24vdc KOEO and quickly hit about 1.5v cranking. The PCM will substitute a known good value in scan data when there's no ICP. In other words, your NGS can show 200PSI ICP when ICP is actually zero. BTDTGTTS, and still bleeding from a place where the sun don't shine....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Have you buzz tested the fuel injectors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponyboy Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 thanks for the input i pulled the engine anf found two melted pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Ok, I would like to revive this thread as I have a similar issue. One of my coworkers bought a 96 E-350 120k miles. He drove it back to work from the place he bought it from and it ran fine all the back(45 min mixed driving). It sat for 10 days and we tried to start it yesterday and it finally started after 10 to 15 attempts. My first thought was that the oil reservoir was draining out but I verified good icp pressure during crank this afternoon. I admit I didnt look at voltage but the value rose and fell smoothly as I would expect it to(0-2800psi). I will check voltage on Monday. RPM, VBAT, and FuelPW were in spec according to the no start sheet. Prelim checks were good as well. My thoughts now turn to the fuel system. I drained the fuel from the filter housing after the van ran for a while and the fuel looks good. After 7-8 attempts I do finally start to get a little bit of white smoke from the tailpipe. Basically we have no tools for diag besides occasionally finding an IDS(no codes KOEO/KOER). Does anyone have any tips/tricks to figuring this fuel system out? I know I am going to get beat up about using the right tools for the job but he isnt going to buy them for this one time job(hopefully its one time). My thoughts were to check the filter housing after the long weekend and see if there is still fuel in it. Has anyone ever seen fuel drainback out of the filter housing? Its been over 10 years since I touched one of these so any suggestions would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Ok, I would like to revive this thread as I have a similar issue. One of my coworkers bought a 96 E-350 120k miles. Poor bastard. He drove it back to work from the place he bought it from and it ran fine all the back(45 min mixed driving). It sat for 10 days and we tried to start it yesterday and it finally started after 10 to 15 attempts. My first thought was that the oil reservoir was draining out but I verified good icp pressure during crank this afternoon. I admit I didn't look at voltage but the value rose and fell smoothly as I would expect it to(0-2800psi). I will check voltage on Monday. Voltage is the important one. .17-.24 KOEO and it should make 1.5v cranking. RPM, VBAT, and FuelPW were in spec according to the no start sheet. The no-start sheet is wrong with RPM only needing to be 100. On a warm day in Miami a 7.3 won't start at 100rpm. It needs to be 150 minimum and 175 preferred warm. Use the scan tool to verify, of course. Prelim checks were good as well. My thoughts now turn to the fuel system. I drained the fuel from the filter housing after the van ran for a while and the fuel looks good. Drain some more into a plastic water bottle and inspect it for clarity, water, dirt, and smell it for gas. How old is it? Put it in the freezer and see if it clouds up. After 7-8 attempts I do finally start to get a little bit of white smoke from the tailpipe. What is fuel pressure during this time? Basically we have no tools for diag besides occasionally finding an IDS(no codes KOEO/KOER). Does anyone have any tips/tricks to figuring this fuel system out? I know I am going to get beat up about using the right tools for the job but he isnt going to buy them for this one time job(hopefully its one time). My thoughts were to check the filter housing after the long weekend and see if there is still fuel in it. Has anyone ever seen fuel drainback out of the filter housing? No, but weak pumps are a pattern failure. Its been over 10 years since I touched one of these so any suggestions would be appreciated. Borrow a FP gauge for a start. It should be 20 cranking and 50ish running, IIRC. FP is not critical running. Borrow an amp clamp to check glow plug amperage, it should be 190ish KEOE initially and drop to about 125 after 30 seconds. If it's above 100-120amps initially it's not your problem in weather like this, but points to a minor GP problem. It's not an old ambulance, is it? Does it have a main battery shutoff like an ambulance? Side bar- pull the oil filter off and verify the oil filter check valve is in place. It's visible with the filter off. It's staked in place on the early 7.3 and falls out commonly. FP gauge is probably $10-20 at Harbor Freight and a DC inductive amp clamp is $49 at Sears. If all of this checks out, fill the FF with Stanadyne Performance Formula, run it 1-2 minutes, and see how it starts the next morning. Good Luck! Edit: How long has it been since the oil was changed? I've fixed a lot of hard starts with an LOF..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Pull the engine and see if it has any melted pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Update: I went out there today during lunch to retest ICP and fuel pressure. Fuel pressure was fine but ICP voltage read 0 volts and never changed, even after the van started. I backprobed the sensor KOEO and it was reading above 0 volts but I dont remember the actual value. I think I have a problem with IDS. Some of the other values are reading incorrectly as well(MGP). I found out today than when the old owner had it rather than replace the battery he used to jump it with a 24V source. The starter pretty much gave up on me today and would never crank it much above 100 rpm. I guess I have the old owner to thank for that. I am going to try to get a hold of a NGS next week and try again. Probably have to replace the starter anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 i would inspect the icp/ipr conectors pin fit and peel back the tape around the harness to inspect the wiring condition. Easy to do if you take the compressor out of your way. You could have oil contamination from an icp that was changed out. Had a few-did i post that already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I finally got around to putting the new starter in. The van started right up with the increased cranking speed. This is the first 7.3L I remember not starting due to low cranking speed but it was barely hanging on at just over 100rpm. Last week I hooked up our corporate scan tool and ICPV was within spec. I dont know why IDS doesnt work right, but the computer I use it with isnt on the "approved" computer list. It might be something to watch out for if anyone else is using a "non-approved" computer. Thanks to everyone for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I finally got around to putting the new starter in. The van started right up with the increased cranking speed. This is the first 7.3L I remember not starting due to low cranking speed but it was barely hanging on at just over 100rpm. Cool! I've fixed more hard starts than I can count because of low cranking speed. All too common for the tech to say it "sounds" like it's cranking fast enough. Last week I hooked up our corporate scan tool and ICPV was within spec. I don't know why IDS doesn't work right, but the computer I use it with isn't on the "approved" computer list. It might be something to watch out for if anyone else is using a "non-approved" computer. Thanks to everyone for the help. All of my laptops are "non-approved" for IDS. And IDS works fine on ALL of them..... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 All of my laptops are "non-approved" for IDS. And IDS works fine on ALL of them..... Good Luck! none of laptops are "approved" either hell my old Toshiba did even meet min specs and worked just fine P.S. IDS works fine with vista home premium as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Maybe it is something with the corporate software load screwing it up then. I am tempted to monitor the communication and see where the error is happening but I dont think I could find something to work with SCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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