6.0l hole in piston, prior approval nightmare.

[cbriggs]

Ok, for starters has anyone seen an injector fail and burn a hole in a piston? I am under the understanding that it is fairly common in H D diesels. I have an 06 f-350, perfect pencil sized hole burnt in the #8 piston and nearly thru the cylinder wall.( oddly familiar to the 6.4 i had a few weeks ago) Only codes present were po284 and p0308. Rest of engine looks mint, no mechanical damage to anything, no visual problem with injector. The hole looks like it was cut with a plasma cutter. With no other problems found i have to assume that the injector nozzle failed and roasted the hole ( which lines up perfectly with an injector spray hole). Prior approval has kicked it back 5 times now, over 3 days. First they wanted the root cause of piston failure and pictures. Again i told them it was the injector, attatched 7 pics of the items they requested. Second they wanted to know engine hours, service records, and the root cause of the piston failure. For the third time i told them, it was the injector, attached all other required information, and resent it. Fourth, they want to know the root cause of the piston failure, and now they want pics of the combustion chamber side of head. So, I Tell them again, it was the injector, and send pics of the head. Now they want to know how i know the injector failed, and want pics of the inside of the oil pan and the underside of the piston. And in capital letters now. So, I resubmitted, explaining that i do not have the tooling to bench test injectors, nor tooling or a procedure to dissassemble the nozzle of the injector, nor a microscope to inspect it. And, as clearly visible in the pictures, the engine( bottom half anyway) is still in the chassis, as i have no intent to remove it until i know they will fix it. I had to go back and edit out the swear words, i figured if i swear at them they'll just take longer.

 

I want to find this fugger and curb stomp the shat out of him. If theyre so worried that im wrong, then send out a field service engineer to inspect it. What the fuck.

 

Sorry for the rant, but Im ready to kill some body, or quit, or something. I wish i wasnt the only certifed guy in the shop, all i wanna do is retail now.

[Keith Browning]

I want to find this fugger and curb stomp the shat out of him. If theyre so worried that im wrong, then send out a field service engineer to inspect it.

Why not requst they do just that?

[DwayneGorniak]

There's hole, there's a hole, there's a hole in the piston I can see. There's a crack in the nozzle and gouge in the cylinder and a hole in the piston I can see. There's a Nazi saying no and and a crack in the nozzle and a gouge in the cylinder and a hole in the piston I can see.

 

Yup, I'm right. This sounds so familiar that I'm pretty sure I've sung this song before. In fact I have on in my bay right now. Good luck with that fucker Chris, I'm going back to drinkin. I suggest you start too if you haven't already.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Guy's if needed send me the injectors and we will run them, or try to run them on our test stand. I will include all of the paperwork for you. It will only cost you shipping which I'm sure would be covered if documented the correct way. I have already checked and all you guys on the DTS have Cart-Blanche with us. Just remember us.....

[cbriggs]

They have never and probably will never send one here. Last time i asked for a field service engineer they told me they are only in the states? wtf. Im pretty sure thats bs. Esp was going to send an appraiser a while back, but called back and said the closest one was 8 hrs away, and it was too expensive to send him, so just do the repair. Im thinking I'll offer to prove it. I'll short block it, and put the same injector back in, see what happens.

[G. Bedford]

Haven't seen an FSE in years. Ford will simply not send one out. I had a 6.4 awhile back that I went through the same thing on. Incredibly stupid from the get go. Obvious failure that could have been determined in the first hour, but finally ended up a sad, sad comedy because of Ford's stubborness.

[DwayneGorniak]

They have never and probably will never send one here. Last time i asked for a field service engineer they told me they are only in the states? wtf. Im pretty sure thats bs. Esp was going to send an appraiser a while back, but called back and said the closest one was 8 hrs away, and it was too expensive to send him, so just do the repair. Im thinking I'll offer to prove it. I'll short block it, and put the same injector back in, see what happens.

 

 

That's the spirit. Just make sure you document the shit out of that R.O. If they decide on a short block, make it very clear that that was all that was approved and it was their decision so that when they kick it back, it ain't on your shoulders. I just went through this shit a month ago on a 6.4L as well. Should have been a long block with new injectors, but nooooo, just replace the short block and one injector I was told. 350Km's later she blowed up again and finally got the long block.

[eastendpowerstroke]

Their bat, their ball, their rules.....We my friends, are merely pawns in their game. Why do you think there is a TSB for almost every conceivable repair involving a diesel engine......

It's a conspiracy man!!!!

[cbriggs]

At least with the tsb's it is cut and dried what you can claim and the exact procedures and repairs to be made.(heck, Why even train us?) They came back and approved a long block this morning, so looks like no injector fun. Ill post some pics of the piston on the weekend.

[cbriggs]

heres a pic of the piston, theres a few more in photopost

 

 

 

 

[Tony302600]

Wheres all the banks and bullydog stickers?

[DwayneGorniak]

It doesn't take a Banks or a BullyDog sticker to cause that. That ugly little orange Navistar decal creates these issues just fine all by itself. I can't even count how many engines in the past "seven years" I've seen like this. Come to think of it, even the 6.4L is showing the sames symptoms now but on a way more regular basis. Hell, we've done about six 6.4L engines in the last three months from melted pistons, not to mention how many Sick-0's we've done in the last year. I have a Sick-0 in my bay right now with hole in the piston as well. This is such a common scene now, that it just doesn't even fizz on me anymore.

 

Which brings me to the paint jobs on these frickin remans. Holy crap, what do they do, Just drop them in the cheapest tank of Black paint they can possibly get their hands on? i couldn't even get the damned exhaust manifold bolts to start by hand because of the amount of paint those Sum bitchin holes. I got so pissed off with it, that I finally said Fuck it and rammed them in with the 3.8 impact.

 

And because of the track record of these remans I now have named this particular black paint that Ford used as: "Al-QAIDA BLACK".

I mean hell, they are an Improvised Explosive Devise are they not? In fact they are nothing more than a road side bomb.

[Jim Warman]

The shape of things to come? Will the next question be "what made the injector fail?".

 

And where could the answer to that take us?

[DwayneGorniak]

Oh oh oh, I know the answer to this one.

 

And where could the answer to that take us? To the Navistar Parts wharehouse.

[Jim Warman]

Actually... I was thinking the answer would come right back to where we live... People (and companies) with a lot of money always have someone else to blame.... Trapped in the middle, someone will tell us that they wont pay for that. Trapped in the middle someone else will tell us "Yes they will".

 

In real life, they usually shoot the messenger...

 

I'm a jaded old man... the only thing that surprises me is when people are surprised about the depths of depravity we encounter.

 

Remember our recent chat about scotchlox? I wouldn't be surprised to actually see them... How many guys remember the deal with gold plated connectors?

[DwayneGorniak]

Yeah, but who are you gonna blame for all the 6.4L engines we see cratered with melted pistons lately? They are all stock. Look at the Sick-0 in my bay. There ain't no Banks or Bullydog decals on that truck nor has there been any mods on it.

[cbriggs]

Next prior approval will ask, has it ever been driven at wot? Yes, oh , ok, not warrantable.

[Gofaster23]

It's pretty obvious the oversized off road tires are the root cause .

 

Seriously, I don't know if they read the entire request at times. I have to send requests back and reiterate what I was saying. I know for a fact that the warranty assessors are contracted, as well as at least one local FSE. Maybe they have contracted employees working on the prior approval side of hotline now.