fjubain Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 How severe damaged or what have you seen from intake hard rock coking deposit?WE have a 6.0l here with severe engine damage, #1 cyliner scored, 3 broken valves on that cylinder that bounced around and finally seized the engine.Tore down engine, head is scrapped, piston has 3 valve hammered in, injector could not be removed, mostlikely rod bent.Found metal partical imprinted in each piston .Egr valve stuck open from a piece of hard rock coking deposit, intake full of metal debris , egr cooler has pieces of metal stuck in fins.Retreived egr codes, #1 cylinder contribution codes and injector circuit codes.Oil not overfilled and fuel system very clean.Now prior approval nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Quote: Now prior approval nightmare I hear that, and feel for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjubain Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 Any idea why 3 broken valves, anybody ever seen a valve break on a sickliter for no obvious reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Any idea why 3 broken valves, anybody ever seen a valve break on a sickliter for no obvious reason. One would have to define "broken" before you could even SWAG.... Without knowing the nature of the failure, what are you gong to surmise? Bent? Bent where? Burned? Burned how? Mushroomed - tuliped - spit a keeper out - spit a crosshead out - makes a noise (oooooh, I got one of them) - spit a rocker swivel out - I've seen a lot of broken shit in the last 40 years.... What separates us from civilians is that we realize "broken" has a lot of different faces.... and we reason shit out from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjubain Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Ok Jim,the two exhaust and one intake valve are broken at the bottom of stem, no bent push rods, keepers still in placed , rockers not broken or bent .The 3 valve heads where crushed on top of the piston and and wedged in there, needed to pry off valve heads on top of piston to remove.Personnaly I never seen a valve head break off for no reason(metal fatigue or any other reason)just like that. I suspect a piece of hard carbon deposit that wedge in between the valve and seat preventing it from closing and then piston contacted the valve causing the remaning damaged until the engine quit.THis is a fleet vehicle, per driver , he saw some smoke at tail pipe , lost power and engine died then pulled over and would not crank anymore.Warranty Nazi wants a CSI report for the root cause of failure.What kind of damaged have you seen from hard intake carbon deposit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Ok Jim,the two exhaust and one intake valve are broken at the bottom of stem, no bent push rods, keepers still in placed , rockers not broken or bent .The 3 valve heads where crushed on top of the piston and and wedged in there, needed to pry off valve heads on top of piston to remove.Personnaly I never seen a valve head break off for no reason(metal fatigue or any other reason)just like that. I suspect a piece of hard carbon deposit that wedge in between the valve and seat preventing it from closing and then piston contacted the valve causing the remaning damaged until the engine quit.THis is a fleet vehicle, per driver , he saw some smoke at tail pipe , lost power and engine died then pulled over and would not crank anymore.Warranty Nazi wants a CSI report for the root cause of failure.What kind of damaged have you seen from hard intake carbon deposit?Francois, I think you answered your own question already. Your post is the very reason why I get guardly nervous, when I get trucks in with EGR valve issues like this. And this is the exact reason why I insist on using our new car cleanup vac to suck up all loose carbon (or as much as possible). I've read enough of Keith's repeat EGR valve failure posts due to repeat carboning up, that I put a concerted effort into removing what I can. If it is carboned up so bad that cleaning it in vehicle is a wasted effort, I just opt to outright replace it (or send it out to be hot-tanked if it's retail). We all know very well, that it only takes a loose chunk to jam the new valve open and we're into the same problem again, or even worse, base engine damage concern as in your scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjubain Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Thanks Mike, sometimes we just need a litle assurance to make sure we're on the right track and make sure i haven't overlooked anything.Now because it,s cooking issue prior approval is refused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 LOL @ using the new-car vac. I bet they appreciate the hell outta that when they go to vacuum out a car with a white interior afterward And FWIW, I've gotten them to pay for intake cleaning under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Clyde Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 We send the really bad intakes out for cleaning; warranty has never denied one yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 LOL @ using the new-car vac. I bet they appreciate the hell outta that when they go to vacuum out a car with a white interior afterward I connect a fabricated rubber hose to the end of the crevice tool attachment to enable it to get into tiny areas, and to not dirty up the attachment. We do what we have to do, when the company is too cheap to provide us with proper equipment. Originally Posted By: Aaron And FWIW, I've gotten them to pay for intake cleaning under warranty. I had one claim bounce awhile back when I had the intake sent out for cleaning. If Ford doesn't appreciate my effort to carry out the most cost effective repair, FUCK 'EM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 We send them out all the time too. We actually have a clean spare in the shop so we don't have to push trucks around waiting for intakes to come back. If it's documented properly, we never have an issue getting it paid. Hotline will also tell you to clean as best as possible and only replace it if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 We have a Bluepoint pnuematic vacuum gun we use with egr r&r, it works pretty well but we have to clean it up at least once a month because of all the carbon build up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikill Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 We used to send them out but Ford started saying not to do it so we started cleaning the intakes ourselves and haven't had a problem getting those paid under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I use the wheel acid from the detail bay. It leaves them shiny and new, and removes all my nosehair in the process. I had one last week that i pressure washed enough carbon out of it to make a softball (no joke). I was chasing an excessive smoke complaint, and when i reported coking to hotline they wanted it all cleaned before proceding. EGR cooler and valve where pluggged, intake was plugged, vgt was plugged and rusted all to crap. Source of coking ended up being (8) fuel injectors. This thing was on a diesel care esp. No fuel contamination or signs thereof were found. Ended up spending over 7 hours completing and waiting for prior approval on this job, not to mention 3 hotline requests and a 1 hour phone call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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