Jim Warman Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Warren Johnson at FRT post this video... He titled the thread "How to beat flat rate"... I watched until about the 3 minute mark without seeing anything earth shattering... Clickee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I watched the whole thing. You missed nothing. It was cool how the truck in the next bay just "disappeared" though. The ONLY way to beat book time is to bust your ass and cut corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 "Cut corners".... just kinda makes my teeth itch.... At one point in time, I almost thought that a concerted effort might make Ford wake up vis-a-vis SLTs.... Realizing that it is easier to kvetch than do anything else, I think we are at the point where everything is getting dumbed down... soon, we will see one or two diagnosticians and a fistful of trained apes at any given dealer... I dare anyone to tell me that this would be "surprising". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 FWIW, I think most of us here are the diagnosticians. The term 'cut corners' bothers me too. Would you want an airplane mechanic cutting corners? Would you want your kids pediatrician cutting corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 soon, we will see one or two diagnosticians and a fistful of trained apes at any given dealer...It's already happening my friend.................mmmmmm banana's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 soon, we will see one or two diagnosticians and a fistful of trained apes at any given dealer... I am actually currently being recruited by another dealership for just this reason... Diagnostician, not trained ape, that is. Just waiting for them to show me the money... and some nice incentives... and a signing bonus... and... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Problem is, the trained apes earn more by doing the general work that produces flag hours. We are teaching the newbies there is no reason to further yourself. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I could not agree more. On the bright side, more and more repairs are going to require technician competency, rather than shop competency... To the point that ALL warranty work is going to be technician related. My entire dealership has 2 Master Technicians, and we both work in the commercial shop. NOBODY in the car shop goes to any training... And nobody wants to. Even though they've all been given plenty of notice about the upcoming changes, nothing is being done. There are 2 or 3 Senior Technicians that are likely going to find themselves very busy with warranty work, while the rest of them mop up the maintenance gravy! There are a lot of 20+ year guys working there, and that has led to a bit of a "tail wagging the dog" situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I can't even begin to explain how nervous I'd be to try the tripod-stand method of cab removal. That just seems frightening.. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Ya the pucker factor would be high the first time for sure. I'm dealing with the same bs as Alex right now(just on a smaller scale). I am the only (ford) trained tech in our shop. I am 1 classroom course away from masters, and find myself doing nothing but warranty work, 1, because im the only one with any certs, and 2 because im the only one sm trusts with tough diags or fixes. The other tech and the apprentice do most of our retail work. I am finding warranty harder and harder to deal with, and having to waste time with sm on warranty admin crap, that i dont get paid for. I am finding my paycheques getting smaller and smaller, but going home with stress induced headaches and anger. I am thinking of going to managment and suggesting they come up with a new paysystem for me, or im gonna.... Well, im not sure what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Warren Johnson at FRT post this video... He titled the thread "How to beat flat rate"... I watched until about the 3 minute mark without seeing anything earth shattering... Clickee I think I figured it out. He has entered a time warp and is able to move near the speed of light. It is obvious if you watch it that he is moving way faster than a normal person can. Obviously at this speed, he can complete the repair in a very short time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixturbosix Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 What about all the shops that have 1 or 2 trained guys and 5 to 6 techs total that are using those 2 cert.techs number on ro's being done by other techs that arent certified (mostly brakes and other gravy warranty) and have no intrest in being certified as long as this continues.But let a warranty job that looks like an ass raper come in and they are the first to say im not certified to do that.I know its against warranty policy but its happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 look up seniormastertech on YouTube -- he does a time-lapse video of a cab-off 08SD, it's pretty cool. The soundtrack sucks though. Assuming this isn't the same guy, my internet connection bites, so I'm awaiting download lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 OK... got the video. Holy shit. That would be scary working like that. Question. Is he taking the rear seat out at some point? If not, how the hell is he getting the center cab mounts undone? That idea of lifting the ass end way up in the air would take some getting used to, that's for sure. And I'm not one for the stilts, that looks DANGEROUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Question. Is he taking the rear seat out at some point? If not, how the hell is he getting the center cab mounts undone? I've only had to remove a rear seat once. I squeeze my hand in there with a strong 3/8 air ratchet. Originally Posted By: Aaron That idea of lifting the ass end way up in the air would take some getting used to, that's for sure. And I'm not one for the stilts, that looks DANGEROUS. I wouldn't work like that. That is WAY too dangerous for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 What about all the shops that have 1 or 2 trained guys and 5 to 6 techs total that are using those 2 cert.techs number on ro's being done by other techs that arent certified (mostly brakes and other gravy warranty) and have no intrest in being certified as long as this continues.But let a warranty job that looks like an ass raper come in and they are the first to say im not certified to do that.I know its against warranty policy but its happening. If I were to ever find out that was happening with my ID, all hell would break loose! They tried it with my Cummins certification once... once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 I wouldn't try this with a two post hoist... but I have used what is called a "bay lift" (haven't seen one for years). Slide it under the back of a RWD with a solid axle and hoist away... You could lift the car up onto the front bumper, slide a couple of jack stands under close to the front and drop the lift down level... the car is now a couple of feet off the ground... Unsafe? I see guys lifting on a two post using only two arms.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Unsafe? I see guys lifting on a two post using only two arms.... Oh, that ain't good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 This may sound "hackish" but I'll readily admit that when I'm doing a cab removal, I'll take a razor blade and make an inch-long slice in the carpet beneath the rear floormats for access to the center cab bolts. I'll put a socket on the bolt from underneath the carpet, and poke a short extention through the slit in the carpet, into the socket, and spin them out with an impact. When the job is done, just clean the carpet up and ruffle the carpet fiber back and forth for a second - even if you KNOW EXACTLY where the cut was located, it's still absolutely 100% impercetpable without sticking your face up to the carpet and trying to open up the cut manually. And 9 times out of 10, there will be a floormat on top of the area anyhow. Even vacuuming the carpet won't reveal the cut, I've tried Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 This may sound "hackish" but I'll readily admit that when I'm doing a cab removal, I'll take a razor blade and make an inch-long slice in the carpet beneath the rear floormats for access to the center cab bolts. I'll put a socket on the bolt from underneath the carpet, and poke a short extention through the slit in the carpet, into the socket, and spin them out with an impact. When the job is done, just clean the carpet up and ruffle the carpet fiber back and forth for a second - even if you KNOW EXACTLY where the cut was located, it's still absolutely 100% impercetpable without sticking your face up to the carpet and trying to open up the cut manually. And 9 times out of 10, there will be a floormat on top of the area anyhow. Even vacuuming the carpet won't reveal the cut, I've tried Dave I deal with a lot of REALLY anal customers. I would be too afraid of a 'bad guy situation' from doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Originally Posted By: DamageINC This may sound "hackish" but I'll readily admit that when I'm doing a cab removal, I'll take a razor blade and make an inch-long slice in the carpet beneath the rear floormats for access to the center cab bolts. I'll put a socket on the bolt from underneath the carpet, and poke a short extention through the slit in the carpet, into the socket, and spin them out with an impact. When the job is done, just clean the carpet up and ruffle the carpet fiber back and forth for a second - even if you KNOW EXACTLY where the cut was located, it's still absolutely 100% impercetpable without sticking your face up to the carpet and trying to open up the cut manually. And 9 times out of 10, there will be a floormat on top of the area anyhow. Even vacuuming the carpet won't reveal the cut, I've tried Dave I deal with a lot of REALLY anal customers. I would be too afraid of a 'bad guy situation' from doing that. I second that. I did a cab lift on one to do head gaskets which had been done before using the "carpet slit" trick. The customer was still so p.o'd at the other shop, he refused to go back there. It didn't help that he missed the bolt heads by several inches and had to cut longer slits in a cross to actually get to the bolt heads. It made my job much easier, however. I can usually pop the sill trim and use a 1/2 ratchet to loosen the bolts, then my air ratchet spins them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 There is a guy at a dealership in a town just next to ours that does the carpet cut trick... We've gained a lot of customers that won't return there for quite a few reasons, the carpet cut being one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Maybe these guys aren't being too surgical with their cuts, lol.. I worked at a dealership in an EXTREMELY rich area with quite possibly the most anal customers I'll ever deal with, and not once have I ever encountered any issues resulting from the carpet slits. This includes a customer who knew that the cab was removed, and brought the truck back 3 days later because he took measurements of the truck and found that the rearmost portion of the cab was 1/4" further to the drivers side than the passenger side.. which I gladly adjusted for him, of course. I won't use anything other than a small razor blade, I know some people will use a pocket knife or something similar but a razor blade makes such a thin slice... I can see how it'd be a problem if someone made a 3 or 4 inch gash because that would definitely be hard to cover up, but I usually make the slit just big enough to poke the extention through and so far I've had no complaints whatsoever.. hopefully it stays that way, lol. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Personally I consider cutting a carpet damaging the truck especially since the cut will be in an area where it is visible even if it is covered by a floor mat which may or may not be present. If this were under a seat or a console that would be another story. I am not judging anyonein particular but this is an unacceptable practice in my opinion. I know that having to wrangle that rear seat out of a crew cab is a pain in the ass and takes a little time but that is how it should be done. We first must recognize that cab removal on pre-2008 trucks is not condoned by Ford motor Company but the reality is that with Ford cutting labor times ridiculously low we are somewhat forced to find faster and sometimes better ways of doing things. This is where wisdom comes into play. Knowing what corners to cut and which corners need to be left square identifies us as professionals and men who care about doing the right thing. I personally am not willing to risk my pride, reputation and the reputation of my employer by jeopardizing an otherwise perfectly executed repair by cutting a customer's carpet, all for what, saving 10 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 That is an attitude that I can completely respect however. And had my employer said that it was an "unacceptable procedure" then I'd absolutely be going another route with the process. In some instances where the customer is very inquisitive and anal, I have actually asked them personally for permission to make small incisions beneath their floormats and so far all of them have said something along the lines as "Do what you need to, as long as it's not something that I won't obviously notice while I'm cleaning the truck"... obviously I'd never do anything AGAINST the customers consent so in that light, I had a "good to go" card with a few customers in particular. I guess this practice kinda goes into that same bin as the techs who grind the heat-shield ear off of the HPOP covers for ease of reinstallation and just bolt the shield back up with 2 of the 3 original bolts, lol. Regardless - if I ever end up working underneath you Keith, rest assured your customers carpets will remain slice-free, hehe. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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