Mbl35 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 My manager informed me as of recently ford requires prior approval for injector r&r. Whats the specific information ford is looking for in the request, charts filled out etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 When you log in to the prior approval link on the PTS web site, there will be questions you will have to answer. What codes,power balance, relative compression results etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 This inj. prior approval shit sucks. I hate prior approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 We're just getting into it in Canada shortly here on injectors. From what the ticker said on the hotline, it said if relative compression varies by 2%, you must also have manual compression readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 BTW. Checking the boxes about vehicle condition makes no difference to Ford. Whatever you answer will come up as "no" on the review. I had a truck that was abused, the oil was dirty. I checked the boxes with a "yes". When I reviewed the approval, all the replys I gave came up as no. It's all a smoke and mirrors game with us techs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 I usually leave those boxes blank. I had 1% on cyl4 and 2% on cyl6 and they came at me with that whole shabang about 2% and manual readings- i aint doin no manul readings on an eseries for no 2% relative comp reading to prove out a bad injector. Anyway i did the test again and it all came up even zeros. I wrote back to them and they got back to me within the hour with an approval for two injectors. Ah thats what you get for being so honest the first time around. I just hope that i don't see any bad injectors for a while-few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 And im so glad were not required to do prior approval on egr and oil coolers anymore but now it's freakin injectors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 The next million dollar question is: ARE WE GOING TO GET PAID TO DO MANUAL COMPRESSION TESTS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I get paid. There is no operation code but I believe we claim R+R 8 glow plugs and add 0.5. Not sure whether it is claimed exactly that way or we claim M-time for the operation based on what I just mentioned... or something like that. You HAVE to do the test and you HAVE to claim for it somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Compression Pressure - Check This operation should be used when concern found requires engine removal for repairs. If engine removal is NOT required refer to 6051A11. Can only be used once per repair. For Diesel Engines this labor op requires that the repairing technician be certified in Training Specialty Area 51 or 52. For Gasoline Engines this labor op requires dealership Shop Competency in Training Specialty Area 32 or that the Repairing technician be certified in Training Specialty Area 32 or 31. When claiming 6007A28*: Do not use with; 19700A*, 6051A11. * Overlap includes ALL labor operation category codes such as Left, Right, Both, One, All, Upper, Lower, High, Low, etc. 6.0L DIT 6007A28 1.7 It says only if engine removal is required, but I think you could probably claim that operation if you were being told to do a manual compression test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Also: Compression Pressure - Check This operation should be used when concern found requires cylinder head removal for repairs. If engine removal is required refer to 6007A28. Can only be used once per repair. For Diesel Engines this labor op requires that the repairing technician be certified in Training Specialty Area 51 or 52. For Gasoline Engines this labor op requires dealership Shop Competency in Training Specialty Area 31 or that the Repairing technician be certified in Training Specialty Area 31 or 32. When claiming 6051A11*: Do not use with; 12405A*, 6007A28. * Overlap includes ALL labor operation category codes such as Left, Right, Both, One, All, Upper, Lower, High, Low, etc. 6.0L DIT 6051A11 0.7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Is this new? I haven't done a compression test in a few months and I know wasn't there not too long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 But let me ask you guys honestly. Do you guys ever bother to do a manual compression test, if power balance indicates a DEAD miss, but relative compression shows green bars across the board? I know that Jim will preach a manual compression will give you real time results, which I agree 100%. But if relative compression shows you 0% across the board, what really are the chances that a mechanical issue is present, other than a faulty injector(s)/circuit(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Do you guys ever bother to do a manual compression test, if power balance indicates a DEAD miss, but relative compression shows green bars across the board? On a 6.0L no, not for a miss IF relative compression shows no loss on ALL CYLINDERS. Low power and high crankcase pressure, yes. Bring me a 6.4L with a misfire that is not fuel or wiring related, ABSOLUTELY!!! A 6.4L will mask problems as I am sure many of us have seen. I wouldn't' dream of disassembling a 6.4L or replacing an injector in one without testing the troubled hole at the very least. Sorry buddy, I have been fooled by this engine. If it happens again I am selling my tools and filling out an application at McDonald's. I know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 On a 6.0L no, not for a miss IF relative compression shows no loss on ALL CYLINDERS. That was my point exactly. Originally Posted By: Keith Browning Low power and high crankcase pressure, yes. Exactly. At THAT point we KNOW have issues that go deeper beyond injector(s) or electrical issues. Originally Posted By: Keith Browning Bring me a 6.4L with a misfire that is not fuel or wiring related, ABSOLUTELY!!! A 6.4L will mask problems as I am sure many of us have seen. I wouldn't' dream of disassembling a 6.4L or replacing an injector in one without testing the troubled hole at the very least. Sorry buddy, I have been fooled by this engine. If it happens again I am selling my tools and filling out an application at McDonald's. I know better. Oh, let's not go there with a 6.4L again. My ass still hurts from the hooping I got on mine too. And yes, I definitely agree that these things will easily mask other problems even though I haven't really been into many 6.4Ls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Is this new? I haven't done a compression test in a few months and I know wasn't there not too long ago. I don't think it's new...the last one I did paid more than 1.7, i know that for sure, I think it was right around 2.0, but that was over a year ago... we all know how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 ARE WE GOING TO GET PAID ? Very little. Think of how much time we lose on these diesels. 1)They don't start-push them into your stall. 2)Charge batteries. 3)Go find an IDS 4)Do the actual diag 5)Spend 15 min fetching parts 6) Perform repair 7)Road test-break down on road test, wait 30 min for wrecker 8)Rediag (for free) You catch my drift? 9) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 I'm sure glad i left the dealer, not to mention one service manager used to take me away from my nice cash jobs i upsold to do prior approvals for other techs-say like the trans rebuilder with no kind of compansation. Now it just takes awayfrom my production time and has me staying late sometimes trying to catch up with my work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 This is what I'm preaching, Mike... Relative compression is a decent test... but only for what it is decent at. And it is up to us to decide what is and isn't relevant. Like what's being said... if you have a dead miss on one hole and relative compression turns up good, you have a better than even chance that the concern will be outside the cylinder. If your hearing is sharp, there may be the off chance that you can hear the change in cranking RPM as any bad holes come up on compression (after all, the PCM is only watching for an rpm change..... for those familiar with the SUN Interrogator 2, the MCA 300 and some of the old Bear diagnostic scopes, the machine would watch for a change in cranking amperage....). Relative compression is a decent tool... but only if it is used properly. A word about manual compression testing... This has been an accepted industry practice for decades. Back when we dealt with carburators, we had some assurance that most all of the cylinders received roughly the same amount of fuel... Today, each cylinder (gas or diesel) has it's own, personal source of fuel... if one cylinder is washed down, it isn't going to look particularly good. Doing a wet test on that cylinder could screw us up if we don't look at all of our indicators. Look in the 6.4 forum for one of my current projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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