clint80 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 i am working on a 2004 f350 6.0 early build 67,000miles. i have a very long story on it. customer's been to 3 other dealers over the past 2 years and injectors 3 and 5 have been replaced a couple times. came to me missing and had a knocking noise. it had low fuel pressure-30 psi undr load, a couple more bad injectors, and pinpointed knock to cyl 3. This veh has a ford esp warr, so- i tore the engine down, cyl 3 piston and cylinder severly worn. i rec a long block with 8 injectors due to the low fuel pressure. inspector came and took pics- they approved a short block only with 2 injectors. i put the short block, new hfcm, and injectors in it ran good and no more noise. cust brought back- now misses at 45 mph under load at 3000rpm. i check it out, find cyls 1 and 7 set contribution codes intermitently, but i dont think this is my miss at 3000rpm. cyl 1 and 7 will drop at little only at idle on injector interupt power balance. i watched pids during concern and icp voltage goes very erratic at 3000 rpm and will drop from 3.9 to 1.0volt. icp sensor and conn already replaced with engine. i followed all appropriate tests in my diag sheet. everything passes except ipr test. i did the slow nuetral run up test and it starts missing at 2200rpm and icp voltage is erratic. this leads me to the check valve test. has anyone ever done this test? the truck wont run on only 4 cylinders. i contacted hotline and they said hi press check valves wont cause my miss at 3000rpm and suggested i throw a new ipr valve in it and if that doesnt fix it throw a new hpop and and the 2 injectors in it. they said a bad check valve or icp issue wont cause contribution codes and that i have 2 diff problems right now. ford esp wanted a complete est so i quoted a new ipr, hpop and 2 injectors. anybody else ever have issues with old style pumps?{the ipr screen was clean when engine was apart} Sorry for the long post this truck and hotline is pissing me off. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Wasn't there something about cracked standpipes causing a concern like this? Have you dropped in a replacement ICP sensor to see if it behaves the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 It almost sounds like oil aeration to me, from the HPOP starving. Has the oil been changed lately, and has the engine been apart lately? I had one years ago that the tech used the wrong silicone on the pan, which depleted the anti-foaming capability if the (new) oil making it aerate badly. An oil change fixed it. (SOB!) I'd put an oil pressure gauge on the low side and make sure it is at spec, and then do the "oil hose tap looking for foamy oil" from the OPS/EOT hole at WOT. There's a TSB on it somewhere, I looked and can't find it. It has a picture of a guy with a pop bottle and an oil hose showing foamy oil from an aerated system. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? It might be one of those full color HPOP guides..... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint80 Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 thanks for the advice guys, the stand pipes were replaced when the short block was put in, and i swapped another icp sensor{just to be sure,no luck}. i am at 6.7 class this week, so i will do a low oil press check and foamy oil test when i get back to work. i got a feeling the hpop is my problem{i have just never seen a hpop problem without codes or some kind of stalls or no start concern}, i just wanted to be sure. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robp823 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Just out of curiosity, does it have the updated stc fitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 We've seen a few early builds with bad high pressure oil check valves... The few that I have had anything to do with seemed to drop cylinders at highway speeds and would run rough (like dropping cylinders) no load at 2000ish rpm. Take control of you IPR.... bring your rpm up until you feel the roughness and then increase your duty cycle and see if it seems to smooth out. Some of the ones I have done, the owners tell me that it's almost like getting a new truck again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Could'nt a bad pickup o-ring cause airation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint80 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 sorry,this trucks been pushed back on my to do list for a while(damn 6.4l's). i finally got to work on it the other day and perf the oil areation test bruce decribed to me. the oil showed no bubbles. i raised rpm till it misses and raised ipr duty cycle and no change. i swapped a new ipr, no change. i replaced both check valves on the rails, no change. all that is left is the hpop. so esp approved a pump. i put the pump in and miss is gone!truck is fixed . thanks guys for your help. this was a good learnig experience for me. i have never seen a hpop fail this way. it really makes a difference watching the icp voltage and not the icp pressure pids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 I've seen a lot of the old style HPOP's cause all sorts of fucked up driveability concerns recently, also. Last one I did I took it apart to see what things were all about in there, it had about 160k miles on it, and the truck was in my stall for a no-start. The plungers/pistons in the pump, 2 or 3 of them you could put your finger over the inlet and push the piston down, and the spring wouldn't push the piston back out because your thumb would keep the seal. The rest of them were really, really wore out and you could almost rock them back in forth in their bores they were in such tough shape. FWIW, the last two I put in, I tapped the hole in the pump that has the check-ball in it, and put a pipe plug in it, to prevent a further failure or the ball falling out and flying around in the rear geartrain. I of course have done this with the customer's knowledge, since I had one that I fixed awhile back that the ball had fallen out of and was never located. Customer did not want to spend lots of time and money for me to tear it down looking. There's two trans pan magnets epoxied to the bottom of his oil pan to catch any errant check-balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint80 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 DO YOU KNOW IF THE NEW OLD STYLE PUMPS ARE UPDATED OR ARE THEY THE SAME PRONE TO FAILURE PUMPS WE ARE TAKING OUT? I HAVE DONE QUITE A FEW 03-04 HPOP'S IN THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS(ALL FOR NO STARTS, EXCEPT THIS ONE). AT LEAST MOST OF THEM ARE OUT OF WARR NOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Also noticed I have replaced a run of the 03-04 pumps also, not sure if they are any different. I can tell you the part number does update, but aside from that I'm not 100% sure. Physically, they didn't appear much different when I had 'em on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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