05 Runs rough, service manger worried

[BLittle500]

Got a truck towed in, customer states that truck ran fine, sat over night, then when he went to start it in the morning it started "strange", ran like crap and kept gettting worse. I drove the truck into the shop, sounded terrible. Anyway, I ended up with 0PSI compression in #6, and the rest had 370-420PSI. Popped the injector out to check the copper and it was ok. One of the fuel screens is missing on the injector and when you hold the injector in your hand, it'll leak fuel out of the tip. I think the injector stuck, filled the cyl when the truck was shut of and bent a rod in the morning. The service manager is all worried about warranty, and isnt second guessing me, but just wants to know what all you guys have run into. Just looking for some input here guys.

 

Thanks again,

 

Brandon

 

BTW, relative compression only showed Cyl 6 14% below the other cyls.

[DamageINC]

14% is MASSIVE for a relative compression test to show on these things, I'd be willing to bet that - yes, you bent a rod, and possibly started melting the piston as well. Id check the oil level to make sure there hasn't been any extreme fuel-oil dilution as well.

 

Dave

[BLittle500]

Dave,

 

Oil didnt seem bad, nor was it over full. I did have 10% loss on relative compression on Cyl 8 though, and 2% on 5 as well. The head will be off pretty early tomorrow, just hoping to find something obvious.

 

Thanks for the input,

 

Brandon

[Brad Clayton]

After performing a relative compression test, then moving on to the manual compression test, the next step would be putting air in the cylinder that is sealed up and monitoring the amount of air loss and where it is being lost. From there you would have an idea of how much or what to tear down.

 

With the lack of compression and damaged injector, you will definetly find a problem when you do a tear down.

[BLittle500]

I found a piece of metal that has smashed around like no ones business. The piston has two decent chunks out of it, the head is all beat up and has 2 bent exhaust valves. Once I get a chance, I'll put a picture up.

[BLittle500]

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Brad Clayton]

Yeah, it's broke!

[BLittle500]

Dug the debris out of the piston, it looks like its the end of a bolt. The last time this truck was apart was 7/9/09 for an EGR cooler, cant see how it would have lasted that long if something was dropped in the intake.

[Brad Clayton]

Man that would suck if thats what happened. I wonder if the truck sat for a while after that repair.

[clint80]

Did any bolt debri reach the exhaust side of the turbo? Maybe there's more evidence in the exhaust in front of the converter

[Fredsvt]

Ouch.

 

I replaced a lower intake on a 5.4 (plastic) for the aluminum updated piece a while ago as part of having to replace a rotted out bypass tube.

 

There was an 6mm tap sitting in the bottom of the plastic intake, it had been there for quite a while it seemed. The truck had nearly 200k on it.

 

The second owner said his buddy, the former owner had to have a head pulled due to a blown plug several years prior. I guess it was in there that long.

[BLittle500]

I'm checking the cat tomorrow. The odd thing is that it just looks like it was the tip of a bolt, but we cant find where any bolts had broken that could have been after the CAC. You guys think that it could have been sent through the CAC?

[DamageINC]

Wow.. that's seriously interesting! What does the injector & Glow plug look like, by chance?

[mrbudge]

Strangs sense of dejavu coming on here. Had a very similar situation here, several thousand km after an egr valve had been replaced. Couldn't determine where the mystery piece came from either. No damage to the turbo, so couldn't have gone in there. Doubt that it made it through the cac. Only thing left was something fell in the hole when the egr valve was out. It is all downhill to the egr valve, and if you wern't paying attention....

It is hard to believe that it would take something like that so long to find its way into the cylinder

[Keith Browning]

What I notice in the photos is there is no evidence of a valve hitting the piston that I can see. Blittle stated the piece looked like the tip of a bolt which would have o be reasonably small to scoot though a valve. Even a short MM bolt would have to hang a valve out. There has to be a story behind this... but what?

[BLittle500]

Dave, Injector tip and glow plug both are fine.

 

Keith, I'll get some pics of the head tomorrow, but she's all messed up. Both intake valves took a whoopin, and when I cleaned the piston up a little today, you can see where both intake valves smashed into the piston. It appears that the piece spent some time in between the intake valves and head, but the strange thing is, it has it on both intake valves.

 

FSE came out today, determined that the piece is "undetermined". I'm supposed to put a piston, rod, push rods, and a head on the left bank. Pulled the right head to inspect for further damage, had blown out head gasket on the right head so once I measure the flatness I'll probably end up putting a head on that side as well.

[Keith Browning]

Both intake valves took a whoopin, and when I cleaned the piston up a little today, you can see where both intake valves smashed into the piston. It appears that the piece spent some time in between the intake valves and head, but the strange thing is, it has it on both intake valves.

That answers that. Sometimes you need to clean the carbon off to see the evidence but usually a good whack leaves a good impression.

[Jim Warman]

Is the debris magnetic or not?

 

Can you do us a big favour and check for piston height at TDC?

[BLittle500]

Uhhh, this one's getting ugly. Ford wants us to fill out the paperwork for voiding this guys warranty. Not sure what all is going to happen now :-/

[Jeff_E]

Uhhh, this one's getting ugly. Ford wants us to fill out the paperwork for voiding this guys warranty. Not sure what all is going to happen now :-/

Do you believe it was customer abuse? Can you prove it? I find it weird that Ford Motor Company wants a technician at privately owned Ford Franchise to fill out paperwork to void a Ford Motor Company warranty?

 

Tell them to grow some balls and do it themselves if thats what they want. I'd be really leery about opening up my dealership to any liability like that. If Ford wants to void that warranty they don't need your help. I've been down that road, all it does is give the customer another party to sue... One with a lot fewer lawyers than FoMoCo. Luckily my dealer won our similar case, but it wasn't a cheap ordeal for the dealership.

[DamageINC]

This is pretty strange.. The EGR valve itself didn't come apart, did it? Lol there aren't many other components that could just "eject" a small piece of metal into the cylinder like that..

 

..I remember one time I was doing some performance work on a Mitsubishi EVO-9 because the owner lost compression in cylinder 1. After tearing the engine down, I found absolutely no immediately obvious damage to the piston, or the cylinder head. What I did find was an ENORMOUS washer wedged in the intake port, which I found a day after taking the head off because I pulled the intake on a hunch. (You remove the cylinder head with the intake still attached, on these things)

 

Initially, the owner blamed the previous shop who did his performance work and said that they sabotaged the engine and threw garbage in the intake because they got into an arguement earlier in the year. After some more investigating, I found that the bypass/blowoff valve had internally exploded and sent some of it's guts through the intake and right into cylinder 1.

 

So maybe some component in the intake, or near the intake broke? Even something like IAT2 or maybe a piece of the turbo from the EXHAUST side (turbine fin, VGT vane pin, anything like that) made it's way through the EGR cooler and into the intake?

 

It seems far fetched, but these thigns do happen I guess.

 

Dave