6.4L Engine damage thoughts.

fergy12 · May 4, 2010

Hello all. Ive got a 08 6.4 L in that the customer stated it began making noise, so he shut it off then it would not restart. Now i got it and it was only reaching 55psi of FRP. It also had a code for a #6 glow plug failure. Now i checked for filings in the HFCM, the secondary housing, and in the injector lines with them all having some shiny metal contamination, minimal water in HFCM. This vehicle also has a programmer. Now the problem is cylinder #6 has 3 broken valves, some of the debris has entered back into the intake and damaged pistons #2,#4,#8,#1,and #7. Pushrods all look ok, the rocker arms have the regular wear on the sockets, and i have also removed the High pressure pump and inspected for pitting inside and have found some, which according to hotline indicates water has gotten in there which is non-warrantable. Now the problem i'm having is finding out what exactly caused the valves to break? I could see water taking out the HP pump causing the contamination, and possible injector failure(vehicle has had 2 injectors replaced previously) but as far as breaking the valves i haven't been able to locate why it happened to determine if it is warrantable or not. Just looking for your thoughts, i did post some pictures in Photopost but was unsure how to post them here.

Brad Clayton · May 4, 2010

Posted Image

Holy guacamole!

jimmy57 · May 4, 2010

IF this keeps up, the 6.4 is going to improve the reputation of the 6.0's a lot!

fergy12 · May 4, 2010

lol thanks for posting those pictures for me!!. Any guess on what happened first?? lol. can't seea injector problem causing this... as for the programmer, not sure. Nothing went through the compressor of the turbo. Had 2 injectors replaced at another dealer when the customer went to leave it wouldn't start, they got it started then the customer brought to us, it started fine, i suspected air in high pressure system from injectors, but relative compression was slightly low on one cylinder, manual compression tested ok, that was about 5000 km ago, and it ran fine when it left, and now its hooped...

GregH · May 4, 2010

What was the oil level?

fergy12 · May 4, 2010

Oil level was good using the short stick method, and doesn't smell terribly of fuel, got looking this morning and found piston to valve contact on 5 other cylinders no including the severly damaged one.

joshbuys · May 4, 2010

YEP, IT'S BROKE....WHAT'S THE CAM GEAR LOOK LIKE ON THE BACK? I REMEMBER SOMEONE ON HERE POSTED THEY HAD ONE WITH CAM GEAR DAMAGE....ARE THE LIFTERS STICKING IN THEIR BORES?

rlchv70 · May 4, 2010

Were the springs and keepers in place? I've seen the valve tip break off at the keeper groove.

Other possibility would be a stuck open valve. Do the other valves move freely in the guides?

fergy12 · May 4, 2010

the valves are broke off. 2 exhaust valves and one intake, all 3 broke off in the intake/exhaust chambers with the keepers and springs still in place. the lifters move freely on the #6 and #8 cylinders. there is evidence of sticking valves on the opposite head in the form of slightly mushroomed valve tips. The rocker tips are also pushed in to deep most noticeable on the intake valves of most of the cylinders. pused almost flat with the body. and like i said previously indication of 5 other cylinder with piston to valve contact. Now it has a programmer and a DPF delete with no DOC but i have a hard time believing that piston to valve contact can be attributed to a programmer and exhaust mods.

Aaron · May 5, 2010

Unless there's an RPM concern you can't see, or won't be told about...

It started making some funny noise.. (at 4800rpm...)

mrbudge · May 6, 2010

It has a dpf delete and a programmer,,,what warranty?

SGI has used some used 6.4's ready to go, reasonable price too.

Shipping to you should be cheap.

DamageINC · May 6, 2010

I was just gonna say - excessive RPM's (ESPECIALLY if it's combined with a sticking lifter valve guide) could absolutely create this kind of issue, even the sligthest bit of valve float is very potentially going to create piston-valve contact with these engines.

Dave

Aaron · May 6, 2010

^^^

Yeah, what he said! Posted Image

Aaron · May 6, 2010

What DPF delete is on it, out of curiosity? FWIW, I'd maybe call whoever's tune it is and see if it's got the RPM limits raised, just for your own knowledge so you can maybe get an answer as to why this thing decided to shit the bed.

Keith Browning · May 6, 2010

I was just gonna say - excessive RPM's (ESPECIALLY if it's combined with a sticking lifter valve guide) could absolutely create this kind of issue, even the sligthest bit of valve float is very potentially going to create piston-valve contact with these engines.

Dave

Well shoot, I saw that on an early 6.0L where the injectors filled the crankcase with fuel and the turbo graciously filled the CAC with the cocktail. It is a sickening feeling when you shut the ignition off, remove the key and the engine is still accelerating. All of the pistons had circles on them and they weren't happy faces! Posted Image

Aaron · May 6, 2010

Somebody get a dry-ice fire extinguisher!

Keith Browning · May 6, 2010

They self extinguish.

Aaron · May 6, 2010

Usually in a SPECTACULAR fashion, too.

fordtech03 · May 6, 2010

They self extinguish.

That just made my day... Posted Image

fergy12 · May 13, 2010

What DPF delete is on it, out of curiosity? FWIW, I'd maybe call whoever's tune it is and see if it's got the RPM limits raised, just for your own knowledge so you can maybe get an answer as to why this thing decided to shit the bed.

It has black maxx programmer with the DPF delete installed. I talked with the installer today and they said that it does not get rid of the RPM limiter. It is using the Mild setting and i'm still trying to find out exactly what the MILD setting does. Looks like it may increase the HP by 80 and give firmer trans shifts. Ford warranty has denied it seeing there are no signs of piston melting therefore it most likely isn't related to an injector issue. I pulled some valves out and they move freely in the guides. The installer is finding it hard to believe its the programmer thinking it has to be a mechanical engine problem causing the damage, and has contacted ford and is wanting us to resubmit the get a review of the situation again. And again i find myself sitting there staring at the engine wondering what the root cause was. The vehicle had ran fine for 60,000KM, then had the DPF kit and programmer installed. Then the customer had smoke problems and returned, they had forgot to program the tuner for the DPF delete. so did that, then he was having smoke issues again, that turned out to be a failed EGR valve, then he was having no start issues and had 2 injectors done at another dealership.