06-18-03 tsb turbo cleaning

[frd senior master tech]

has anyone done the tsb for the turbo cleaning. i just did my first one today. i will say this, it doesn't take a lot of carbon to slow down those vgt vanes. this is just not a good design. you can see when you take it apart where the vanes like to sit. you need to modify your cookie wheel to clean around the vane pins. next thing you know we will be rebuilding the entire unit with new bearings and new turbine's and impellers. can't wait.

[Keith Browning]

First, welcome to the site!

 

I have done only two so far and they were before the recall came out. Both of mine were stuck from rust and the first was too rusty to recondition. If you haven't been to the articles section of the site, I wrote an article on the process based on the International bulletin before Ford came out with the TSB. Personally I feel that using a light coating of anti-seize is preferable to coating everything with oil.

[Scott B]

has anyone done the tsb for the turbo cleaning. i just did my first one today. i will say this, it doesn't take a lot of carbon to slow down those vgt vanes. this is just not a good design. you can see when you take it apart where the vanes like to sit. you need to modify your cookie wheel to clean around the vane pins. next thing you know we will be rebuilding the entire unit with new bearings and new turbine's and impellers. can't wait.

I have done a pile of them.Here is a quick way to get your wheel to size to fit between the Vane posts.Take the cookie wheel in the Kit.Chuck it up in your die grinder.Then get a rough flat file and Just hold it against it a bit then Check the diameter till you get what you need to get around the Vane posts.I have some old gasket punches that a Pre cut a Bunch of Pads down to size with so I dont have to mess around trimming them up.Helps a little anyways

[Keith Browning]

I was discussing this with someone and for some reason we were thinking that once upon a time 3M made a 1" disk. The more I think about it the more clouded my thoughts get. Does anyone know if they did or not? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott B.:

I have some old gasket punches that a Pre cut a Bunch of Pads down to size with so I dont have to mess around trimming them up.Helps a little anyways

Awesome idea! I love multi-tasking tool ideas. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

[Mekanik]

Its not a bad job. Ive done 2 so far. I was much more hesitant to replace a 1400.00 dollar turbo then I am to take one out and apart to see the failure with my own two eyes.

[Scott B]

As far as Turbo failures on the 365.I have yet to see a Total explosion....Yet LOL!.Some sloppy bushings causing the impeller to Buzz into the Housing slightly but No shaft breakage.I will be sure to post some Pics next good one I get off of a CAT or Cummins.Things like Holes blown through the Exhaust downpipe and The Coldside housing completely blown off the Center section.Some of the carnage is Unreal.

[International Tech]

Quote:

Some of the carnage is Unreal.

I just did a turbo on a DT466(I-313) last week that had spun the compressor wheel right off and dumped a huge amount of oil in the intercooler. I should have snapped some pics.

Ive done quite a few reconditiongs on the 365, Ive only seen one that had a catastrophic failure.

[frd senior master tech]

did my second cleaning on a turbo today. thing ran great for 15 minutes. then when accelerating hard up a hill there was a noise like i blew the intercooler. brought it back and smoke tested the intake and exhaust- no leaks. checked the turbo and found the turbine and impellor destroyed. not to sure what happend. took it back apart to make sure i didn't missalign something and all was good. oh well. needs a turbo now.

[Scott B]

Quote:

Some of the carnage is Unreal.

I just did a turbo on a DT466(I-313) last week that had spun the compressor wheel right off and dumped a huge amount of oil in the intercooler. I should have snapped some pics.

 

Ive done quite a few reconditiongs on the 365, Ive only seen one that had a catastrophic failure.

You bring up a good point Intercoolers filled with Oil .On most any Turbo failures The seals are leaking long before the Failure actually happens.Which means usally it has been pumping Oil into the Intercooler.Also Pieces of the Impeller blow up into it when and if it scatters.This is critical to check anytime you replace a Failed Turbo especially if you notice heavy Oil out of the Cold side discharge.Here is a Example.We had a guy do a In-frame overhaul on a C-15 CAT along time ago.Anyways the tk had a Turbo failure right before this and was Towed in then the customer decided they wanted a In frame done because of the Miles on it.Someone forgot about the Turbo blowing up first and the Intercooler was Full of oil from the Turbo failure and Nobody cleaned it out.Guy finished the overhaul ran tk in the shop all is well.Took it out onto the Highway made some boost It pushed out all the Oil right into the Intake and It ran wild and Scatterd! He never made it out of the Low side of the tranny.2150, was the Governd eng speed.The ECM recorded 3170 before it blew up.Broke the Cam gear in half,Trashed the Head and pistons.So it can and does happen.Anytime I do a Turbo thats failed if I see any signs of Oil from the Charge side or if the Impeller shatterd I dont take any chances.I pull the Intercooler steam it out good with The Hotwasher.Even small pieces of blade debris will come back to bite you If you dont get them out.When the Turbo is making boost and Forcing the Air through the Intercooler and You let off the Pedal there is a certain amount of restriction there.That Backpressure will actually force some air back through the coldside discharge.Guess where those tiny pieces of blades are going that were hiding right inside the Intercooler inlet.You guessed it right into your new turbos impeller wheel ripping the shit out of it.Sorry for the ramble I have seen it happen too many times.Better safe than sorry.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Originally posted by Ford Doctor:

[QB] I was discussing this with someone and for some reason we were thinking that once upon a time 3M made a 1" disk. The more I think about it the more clouded my thoughts get. Does anyone know if they did or not?

 

 

I think this is what we all will be looking for to do this job. These are the only ones that I could find listed in 1" medium grade.

 

 

Scotch-Brite™ Roloc™ TR PD Surface Conditioning Disc, 1 in x NH A MED, 200 per case, SPR 018883A

A lofty, open non-woven abrasive disc resistant to loading on soft and/or oily materials. A threaded attachment system secures the disc to the holder. Abrasive mineral: Medium grade aluminum oxide.3M Id : 61-5001-3593-6

[Keith Browning]

Good find but have you ordered any? I am afraid to until I know for sure that this product is what we are looking for. My parts department has been screwing up real bad lately and some guys have been letting them know how they feel... I don't want to ask them to order these and then tell them to send it back! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif But then again, that would not even come close to the "extra" DOES II line engine they ordered by mistake! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Got them on order right now, will let you know when I see them.

[frd senior master tech]

did my 2nd and 3rd turbo cleaning today. these i drove for 20 miles each and no problems. loving life.

[Dr. Giacoma]

yes the tsb is exellent for saving our ford some money, and it works a good amount of the time. but lets get to the nitty-gritty : flagging. can i take my normal diag ops with this tsb? what if i blew a cac tube or some ypipes due to overboosting?? can i tack on that repair on the same line or am i raising flags? and next up is every recheck thats going to come in as i clean the same turbo every 5000 miles?? THINK OF THE CHILDREN,FOR GODS SAKE CAN WE THINK OF THE CHILDREN??????????

[ktmlew]

yes the tsb is exellent for saving our ford some money, and it works a good amount of the time. but lets get to the nitty-gritty : flagging. can i take my normal diag ops with this tsb? what if i blew a cac tube or some ypipes due to overboosting?? can i tack on that repair on the same line or am i raising flags? and next up is every recheck thats going to come in as i clean the same turbo every 5000 miles?? THINK OF THE CHILDREN,FOR GODS SAKE CAN WE THINK OF THE CHILDREN??????????

AMEN!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hitthefan.gif

[Keith Browning]

Recap time!

 

How have you guys been making out with cleaning these turbos? I have yet to see a repeat failure to date. Just wondering what is typical. I HAVE had many that were too rusted (according to the guidelines)

[Scott B]

Take it down a little more with the coarse disc and work it up to fine.I have had some Nasty ones that I have cleaned up.At The VERY worst the Unison ring could chatter from doing this. But I have not run into that yet. I have sanded the Shit out of many Scabby ones.I mean if it has Moon craters I will junk it,Other than that Sand Her up LOL!

[Keith Browning]

You know what Scott, creating a certain amount of looseness might be beneficial whereas if the unison ring is free to move around a little it might assist in keeping the carbon off the center. As far as keeping the rust from reforming /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif How long do you think that light coating of anti-seize is going to last? It does have a high temperature rating.

[Scott B]

It does last longer than I thought it would.We had tks come in with Turbo issues that we cleaned them up.About a month later it blew the STC out.International wanted it done again with the Uptime package.And I forget the milage it had in between this.But When I opened it up it was naturally carboned color but there was still evidence of The compund on the Ring and cartridge face.And I know this tk gets the Hell pounded out it daily.So I think it hangs on for a decent amound of time.

[Scott B]

It does last longer than I thought it would.We had tks come in with Turbo issues that we cleaned them up.About a month later it blew the STC out.International wanted it done again with the Uptime package.And I forget the milage it had in between this.But When I opened it up naturally it carboned color but there was still evidence of The compund on the Ring and cartridge face.And I know this tk gets the Hell pounded out of it daily.So I think it hangs on for a decent amount of time.

[Tony302600]

I think this might be going above and beyond, but Im going to start taking pictures and posting them from insides of the turbos we've had. We all have our different opinions of what needs to be cleaned vs. replaced. I replaced 2 turbos clearly stuck vanes that i would love to have seen inside previous to the tsb and hotline said NO!!!! do not take it apart......month later, tsb comes out.

[Tony302600]

Didnt know if u guys knew this, Matco has a 1 inch disk adapter and 1 in 3m pads... for disk holder and 75 3m pads i paid $30