John Sarmer Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Actively looking for (2) qualified diesel technicians for a large Ford Lincoln Mercury store in Middle Georgia. We service approximately 2000-2300 vehicles a month and have more diesel work than we can handle. Wages $25.00-$30.00 per flat rate hour with benefits. Will consider relocation package for the right individuals. Send resume to john.sarmer@warnerrobinsflm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCTech Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Well, considering the absurd warranty pays for PSD's, I need about $95 hr and can expect to turn 30 flat-rate warranty hours per pay period, 125 real-time. Sorry to be sarcastic, but I'm departing Ford for greener pastures...say Kia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Sorry, John.... I just can't see me taking a cut in pay. If you want good people that will take good care of your customers, I think you'll need to abandon flat rape pay. Give the man (or lady) more money per pay period than some of the hacks and prostitutes we see in this trade. Treat him/her like a human being and realize the contribution they make to the dealership team. On the shop floor, we see the charlatans every day. They make more money than the good guys.... there's a reason for that. Do you realize how many times we see the same old ad trotted out by umpteen dozen different shops? All of them promise a rewarding future and being treated as valuable members of a team rather than "meat-things" with tools.... few, if any, actually deliver. FWIW, even though I am truly an asshole in real life, I have had "one of those days".... several hours looking for the nut off a 6.0 injector spool valve screw..... I couldn't find the nut but I am confident it is not inside the engine. I'm pretty sure that I know exactly how much I will get paid for that little corner of my life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sarmer Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 It it diificult at best for all of us working within Ford's guidelines and training requirements(not to mention repairing an engineered nightmare) It troubles me to see so many discontented technicians who feel unappreciated, but it is difficult for me, as an employer to have too much sympathy for someone (at least in my organization) who makes $85,000 to $105,00, works 8am-5pm M-F, gets all holidays off and 2 weeks a year off and gets paid full wages for time spent in school. All this for having the willingness to learn and displaying a good work ethic. There are alot of professionals out there that would like to have life so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 First, welcome to FDDTS and do feel free to participate in any topic. It is refreshing to hear a manger's point of view and opinion. Also, please extend an invitation to your diesel guys to join us. John, with the numbers you present your lack of sympathy is warranted. I do not know what other technicians earn but there are just too many variables that effect everyone's bottom line to simply lump us all into one demographic. So I will speak for myself... $85,000 to $105,00? As a full time Ford diesel technician performing 90% or better warranty work? Sorry, that is not realistic. I am well paid per hour and have a guarantee which I generally draw every week therefore I will probably never see those yearly figures as a diesel specialist. The technicians I have seen over the years making those kind of figures either spend 60+ hours on the job, work so fast and carelessly that the quality of work performed suffers significantly or they are thieves. Granted, I do much more than turn wrenches, I am also a "team leader" that dispatches, assists technicians who need frequent assistance and speak with customers. I will never be "productive" on a consistent basis. My two technicians are hard workers but making more than 40 hours is difficult for them as well, especially with a constant flow of recalls and lifts being tied-up waiting for parts. We are trying to do the work of at least 5 techs but the three of us simply can't do it. Having said that, are there any techs in North Jersey looking for a new place to park your toolbox? Perhaps the discontentment comes from getting beat up by these engines and the vehicles they come in. It eventually takes a toll on a man mentally and physically. Furthermore, I don't see too many young guys coming into this business and pretty much every other technician in my shop wants NOTHING to do with diesels or trucks bigger than an F250. It is obvious that this is exactly what you are suffering from as are a great many dealerships. Otherwise, you would not be on the Internet offering jobs and Ford would not have reduced the number of Required Diesel Labor Operations for Warranty Work as posted on FMCDealer; Dealer Communications, September 12, 2005. CLICK HERE for the post in our Forums. What everyone knows but are not admitting is: It's a giant shit sandwich and we are all going to have to take a bite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sarmer Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Keith, You make some very valid points and I appreciate your professionalism, one's pay is a direct result of what they bring to the table in all facets of the job, from fix it right, to efficient repair processes,hours turned, genuine empathy for our customers(they do sign our paychecks)and how they contribute to the overall success of the team. We need to stop looking at "flat rate hours" as the only component of one's value to the company. We (managers and employees) need to be focused on the continued growth of our business, both thru employee satisfaction AND customer satisfacting. All too many managers are focused on short term profit only, this clouds thier ability to make "right" choices in respect to pay, benefits and expectations of performance. The organization that rewards the individual (in this case, deisel techs)that helps acheive the company goals(to service and sell more vehicles and parts)will be the organizations to grow every month. We need to do what ever it takes to just maintain our customer base, because if we don't, Ford truck owners will switch to Dodge or Chevy and they will be lost forever. Summing up, the value of a technician can not be determined just by hours turned, but how do they contribute to the overall continued growth of the dealership. By properly addressing the difficulties the 6.0 has presented, and by realizing that they pose a problem exempt from the normal flat rate process, our technicians can be rewarded instead of penalized, our business will grow and we will be paid pack with dividends. I hope all goes well for you in the future... our task is not any easy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCTech Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Excellent points, and Keith vocalizes my emotions perfectly. The top-pay performers in our shop also have the highest comeback metric, despite their higher production numbers. They make the true technicians, the scientists, suffer the indignity of a mediocre paycheck and little recognition for a job well done. Many a service consultant and manager are snowed by impressive production metrics and a little jargon from the professional theives. Funny thing, I left a government fleet operation thinking I would leave the non-appreciating stuffed-shirts behind; what I discovered on the outside is...the same lepers wearing a different uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I'm sorry that I seem to have struck you the wrong way, John.... I have this terrible habit of saying what I feel rather than what folks want to hear. Your ad reads no different than hundreds of others. Where you managed to pull the income figures, one can only wonder... unless you're looking for hacks that care about hours more than customers. It is rare for my cheque to be even close to the biggest in our shop.... but it's rare for a week to go by where I don't save somebodys bacon big time. What value can we place on a high customer satisfaction profile? Too many dealerships believe that they will have a customer for the next 3/36 without ever paying attention to the very lucrative retail market. My ideas are probably too old fashioned for todays management model... but I have an extremely loyal retail customer following. I ain't rich, but I ain't stupid, either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCTech Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 God knows I've tried to be a hack, but I just cannot look myself in the mirror and not feel like a snake. Money is great, but I obtain greater satisfaction from a smile and a handshake from a customer. Perhaps somewhere, some way, there is a group...a team of winners that think the same way. If not, I will eventually have to take the chance myself and create that winning team. Someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Put me in Coach! If you build it, they will come... NJ and VA are not that far away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCTech Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Keith, You're 1st on zee list, guaranteed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 A word to the wise.... before you set out to change the world, you need to re-educate the customer..... I've had my fill of people that spent their retirement fund at Cambodian.... oops, Canadian Tire and now it's up to me to undo that shit and fix it right.... for a buck eightyfive or some such ignorant figure. For many years, I tried to "move the world". All I ever did was buy a job and after all was said and done.... been there, done that, could no longer afford the hat... At least once a year, I ask "what's this trade going to be like 20 years from now?". The changes I have seen from my early roots have been astounding. 20 years from now, we'll still be "meat-things".... but I'm sure we'll have cleaner hands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 It it diificult at best for all of us working within Ford's guidelines and training requirements(not to mention repairing an engineered nightmare) It troubles me to see so many discontented technicians who feel unappreciated, but it is difficult for me, as an employer to have too much sympathy for someone (at least in my organization) who makes $85,000 to $105,00, works 8am-5pm M-F, gets all holidays off and 2 weeks a year off and gets paid full wages for time spent in school. All this for having the willingness to learn and displaying a good work ethic. There are alot of professionals out there that would like to have life so good. You guarantee me 60K and I'll be there end of next week. I'm the real deal. Customer comes first in "my" world not big numbers. That is going to have to be the way of the future or we won't survive! Put your money where you mouth is!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Whoops! Don't have a signature on this board..... 30+ years experience-ASE Master Auto Certified thru 2010-Ford Power-Stroke Certified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Guys,I spent my time in the barrel... I've been a tech for 15yrs and remember some great stuff in the past(hope you see the sarcasm).. The fact of the mater is that we work in the repair industry. We dont fix vehicles that arent broken......What do you think the gynocologist thinks of his job?? We only see the stuff that has problems, the more certified we are, the better suited to repair things. If you think that things will be different somewhere else, go for it.. I'll bet that its a rude awakening, every time I have left for greener pastures, I just found the shit smelled different because it was fresh, it doesnt take long to get old. Any job in the service industry will eventually suck, its up to you to make it tolerable. Hopefully the dealer is willing to treat you right. On to the money, sorry guys, the days of making 100% profit on warranty are over. Ford wants a fair deal from you, and they can control it for the most part. Most all of their times are attainable, meaning you should be able to turn 40hrs in a 40hr week if you dont spend your time jacking your jaw or smoking(cigaretts) One key point to realize, the dealer is in it to make money too. They wont pay you $30 per hr to do a gravy service. Try to make a deal to get the quick service guys rate for service work, that will increase your profit. Keep as possitive as you can or you'll self destruct. You may need to move on if you cant handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Guys,I spent my time in the barrel... I've been a tech for 15yrs and remember some great stuff in the past(hope you see the sarcasm).. The fact of the mater is that we work in the repair industry. We dont fix vehicles that arent broken......What do you think the gynocologist thinks of his job?? We only see the stuff that has problems, the more certified we are, the better suited to repair things. If you think that things will be different somewhere else, go for it.. I'll bet that its a rude awakening, every time I have left for greener pastures, I just found the shit smelled different because it was fresh, it doesnt take long to get old. Any job in the service industry will eventually suck, its up to you to make it tolerable. Hopefully the dealer is willing to treat you right. On to the money, sorry guys, the days of making 100% profit on warranty are over. Ford wants a fair deal from you, and they can control it for the most part. Most all of their times are attainable, meaning you should be able to turn 40hrs in a 40hr week if you dont spend your time jacking your jaw or smoking(cigaretts) One key point to realize, the dealer is in it to make money too. They wont pay you $30 per hr to do a gravy service. Try to make a deal to get the quick service guys rate for service work, that will increase your profit. Keep as possitive as you can or you'll self destruct. You may need to move on if you cant handle it. See post below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Guys,I spent my time in the barrel... I've been a tech for 15yrs and remember some great stuff in the past(hope you see the sarcasm).. The fact of the mater is that we work in the repair industry. We dont fix vehicles that arent broken......What do you think the gynocologist thinks of his job?? We only see the stuff that has problems, the more certified we are, the better suited to repair things. If you think that things will be different somewhere else, go for it.. I'll bet that its a rude awakening, every time I have left for greener pastures, I just found the shit smelled different because it was fresh, it doesnt take long to get old. Any job in the service industry will eventually suck, its up to you to make it tolerable. Hopefully the dealer is willing to treat you right. On to the money, sorry guys, the days of making 100% profit on warranty are over. Ford wants a fair deal from you, and they can control it for the most part. Most all of their times are attainable, meaning you should be able to turn 40hrs in a 40hr week if you dont spend your time jacking your jaw or smoking(cigaretts) One key point to realize, the dealer is in it to make money too. They wont pay you $30 per hr to do a gravy service. Try to make a deal to get the quick service guys rate for service work, that will increase your profit. Keep as possitive as you can or you'll self destruct. You may need to move on if you cant handle it. I don't mean to argue with you, but what is it exactly that you do.Parts of your post are laughable at best. I get the feeling you are not working exclusivly on diesels, otherwise I believe your post would be very different. I am the ONLY diesel tech in our shop, when I get one truck finished there are 2 more to replace it. You are obviously not bent over a grill or fender 6-8 hrs a day. I am 41, younger than some on this board, and my body hurts 24-7. Go ahead and do a HPOP in less than 6 hrs, turbo and y-pipe in 2.3hrs, PLEASE. I want a days pay for a days work, not to much to ask for, and pay comesurate with experience, and what I bring to the table to make a successful dealership. NOT TO BE, my friend, not to be. To achieve the numbers stated above I would have to produce a minimum of 100 hrs per week. Who is he trying to kid! Hence all the previous posts that call his bluff. To me it's all bullshit! The only satisfaction I get is speaking to a satisfied and happy customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I think you misunderstood me, I agree that there is a problem with pay. At the point where I was so frustrated with the dealer because I was overworked and under payed I left. My point was that the job can be done in the time they pay. If you cant do it, there is a reason. My body cant hang anymore either. I hear alot of bitching going on(not dirrected to you), if you dont like your job, you chose it so move on to something better. If you cant aford to, apply for a lube tech to make more money. I'm not sure what lit your fire about my last post, but I feel it was honest and not dirrected to you but the industry. It's a tough bussines... The more you know the less you make because you become too expensive to do the gravy. Therfore you make less money. So, I agree that you would have to spend alot more time at work to make the kind of money we used to in the past. Times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCTech Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 A quick cross-section of my shop: Technician - diesel master, 7.3 and 6.0., gasoline, electrical, most everything else on paper, including -gulp- hybrids. Refuses anything related to 6.0, or anything else that does not represent a mixture of 70% CP 30 WP. Sells a "tune up" to every swingin d!@k that walkin in beyond 3/36. Does not own a DVOM or even a test light. Knows no other diagnostic tool than the NGS (not including attachments) Pulls approx 120 per two weeks. If allowed, will stack every bay 3 deep, bouncing from one to the next until his gravy quotient is maximized. Total rework quotient - 55% of all turned Technician - Refuses all work on diesels, including recalls. self proclaimed EEC and "tran-mission" man. Condemns any E4OD or 4R100 without any diagnosis. Sees no difference between KOEO, R, or Continuous; knows no difference beteen component or condition codes; voltage drop is when he dropped his DVOM last year. 20k "guilded toolbox". Pulls approx 120 per pay period as above with a rework of approx 1 in 10 for transaxles/missions and 90% for anything electrical/electronic. That's my dealer service department. The first two, and i am speaking objectively, would be destroyed in a production, non-butterbean dealership. they've been there for many years and have created the illusion of expertise among a core group of customers, many elderly, and among management. Our SM, a great guy with about 40 years with Ford, sees through them but is hamsrtung by his boss as to what he can do. He wanted to convert me to straight time, exclusively dedicated to the 95/5% warranty/CP spread I was seeing with the 6.0, as a way to provide some stable income. It was shot down immediately, reasoning that the other techs would object. Interestingly, our lube kid is salaried, required to pull no more than 6 jobs per day, and earns more than I do at 11.50 per hour. It hurts. It hurst when I go home and logon to FMC and take the courses and buy the tools. it hurts to see the two charlatains laughing at me as I double over in pain from the last E350 egr cooler. It hurts to see my paycheck time at 65 hours, looking at my bloody and battle-wearied hands while the crooks get a $500 over 80 bonus for two weeks worth of crap that comes back?? Whats hurts the most, though, is I gave a better part of my health in the War on Terror on 9/11, and i accept full responsibility for the consquenses, and at 34, I just can't seem to live up to your and Ford's expectation that the 6.0 pays are perfectly attainable. Yeah, i went off on a tangent with the disability thing...I just came back from the VA today with the news from my doc that I have to give up intense labor operations, like the ones found in a flat-rate shop. I cried. I didn't want to give up what I love but my declining spinal health demands otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I'm sorry to hear about your health, as well as the fact you think that you think you cant live up to my expectations... No where did I say that, I mearly stated that the dealer is a tough work environment. To clarify further what I meant, Ford's labor times arent as far out of line as most believe. Just ask a Chrysler tech. If your humpin it with everything working out with parts you should be able to meet the times. The issues you stated are dealer issues, not Ford Motor Company's. I left the dealer for the same reasons, I couldnt handle busting my back to make 40hrs per week doing the work no one else could or would do, while some chosen one makes 100-120hrs with enough time to read the news paper,drink coffes, smoke cigarettes and bitch about the lack of work. It is a very difficult job for a honest tech. Wish you the best, and hope you find something else that suits your desire to work with vehicles. Maybe you can find a dealer that treats you better..?.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCTech Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You expressed your opinion - Ford wants a fair deal from you, and they can control it for the most part. Most all of their times are attainable, meaning you should be able to turn 40hrs in a 40hr week if you dont spend your time jacking your jaw or smoking(cigaretts)- . It has everything to do with FOMOCO and the agencies that represent it. Ford sells to consumers through the dealerships; part of the contract is for the agent to service the, er, product. IH dropped the ball with the 6.0 and the ford tech is being forced to eat the shit sandwich. We, the PSD techs, subsidize that monstrosity. Bitter, you bet. I wish to hell Ford, as well as the others would just drop the scam and not offer a warranty, period. Our sister store, a Mopar firm, doesn't even have a Cummins tech because...they DON'T need one! I've personally owned them all: 6.0, 5.9, and 6.6 from all three makes. The 6.0 is a disgraceful mockery that encites this question from owners, technicians, and managers: why the hell did they get rid of the 7.3? I respond the standard mantra, that Ford needed a more NOX and soot friendly powerplant that delivers world-class performance, economy, and reliability. I suggest you visit a used truck agent. Price an 02 vs 03 PSD; one local distributor in used SD's said the 6.0 was analgous to the 5.7 olds diesel!!! Dear God, I thought, were dead!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I'm not arguing the issue with the 6.0 nor how we got to this point. I completely agree with most of what you have stated about it. Again, I believe that the times are attainable. You wont make 100hrs per week doing waranty work, plain and simple. As a matter of fact you'd be lucky to turn much more than 40hrs in a 40hr week if all you did was warranty work. Is that why we got into the bussiness, NO. We got into it because in the hay day, you could easily beat the times by 60-70%. Things have become technical, to say the least, and we have had to keep up. Those that havent are now doing all the CP gravy. Its hard to blame it on Ford when the dealer has chosen to feed you all the shit w/ no gravy. Ford could take more control, but then it comes into the dealer franchise agreement. Believe me, I have been there and completely understand what you are saying. I can now see the total picture, not just what the dealer wants me to see. There are techs that work at good dealers who treat them right and feed them the gravy along with their shit sandwitch so it goes down easier. These guys have been at the same dealer for many years and wouldnt dream of leaving. You can relate this to McDonalds having poor management and service in one town, but the next town over you would think they were a real resturant. We can only hope things get better and the flatrate thing it revisited or killed all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I've seen some comments that "the times are quite attainable" that Ford sets. I can see it now (stroking chin and gazing in air)......you put duct tape over your mouth so you don't lose any time to talking, eating, drinking coffee or spending time under the SM's desk? Of course the shops that you can turn 40hrs a week doing 95% warranty also have 4 parts guys at the counter dedicated to serving the techs ONLY so you never have to wait while they try to explain to some idiot on the phone why they can't order a PS bracket for an 85 Merc Monarch! The parts are allways in stock so you don't lose time shuffling cars/trucks in and out of the shop. The writers make the complaint completely understandable on every ticket. Oh.....forgot......these are all DEALER issues!!!!! Warranty times are bullzhit! Especially on the 6.0L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 yea, your right.... Ford is responsible for paying you to wait at the counter and talk shit to the other guys in the shop about how bad it is... If it sucks that bad for you get out....That attitude will slow you down even more and effect the rest of the shops moral.Like I said, try a chrysler dealer that wont pay you for diagnostic time either, better polish your crystal ball. Didnt realize this was a poor me crying site, its sounding more like the stuff coming out of New Orleans. HEY, thats it, blame it on the government TOO!!!!! Thanks for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Okay guys, PLEASE! I have to ask you to back off on the shop politics. The tone of this thread is no longer professional in my opinion and this is indeed not a "poor me crying site" or a "Ford bashing site." This is a technical site which was the intention from the beginning in an effort to get away from this type of posting. I am sure we are all in agreement that this web site is a safe haven for techs to gather and share information in a kind and professional atmosphere and since it's beginning it has been that way. We will not lock threads to end disruptions on this web site - we will warn and then suspend members. :ban: If you disagree with this policy please PM me and we will discuss the matter. I am honored to be in the company of the members that have already joined us. All of you are welcome here and I look forward to our continued growth therefore really don't want to have to cast anyone away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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