38ryr88 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 I was looking for info on why the oil level increases on the 6.4 when oil change intervals are increased or ignored. I have seen several the last few weeks where the cust has not had and oil change in over 8,000 plus miles and I seem to be draining 17-19 quarts of oil from the engine with no evidence or conclusion of fuel dilution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Regeneration involves turning on the fuel injectors on the exhaust stroke. The majority of the fuel goes out through the tailpipe to burn in the DPF/DOC, but some of it gets past the piston rings and ends up in the crankcase. The slower the truck is driven (on average), the more regens, and the more fuel dilution. They all do it. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I seem to be draining 17-19 quarts of oil from the engine with no evidence or conclusion of fuel dilution But make no mistake, the fact that you have up to 19 quarts in the crankcase is BECAUSE it is diluted with fuel. Bruce's statement is indeed correct and there are things you should be doing and advising your customers to do... and not do. [*]Reduce oil change intervals to 5000 miles [*]Reduce idling time to 5 minutes or less. Some states even have a 3 minute law. [*]When changing the oil, set the level to the lower end of the cross-hatched mark. But my advice differs from here as I have been bitten in the ass by this engine several times now. 19 quarts is approaching a level on the crankcase where the amount of oil in the crankcase vapors increases. This leads to oil in the charge air cooler and the lower CAC tube... eventually it begins wicking into the intake and we know all too well what begins to happen at that point. I would also take a good look at your injector fuel trims. Anything more than +10 or -10 indicates a concern that you need to indentify and correct. These fuel trim adjustments are great for compensating for variances in the parts that go into these engines. The fuel trims also do an excellent job of compensating to injector problems and developing mechanical problems like washed cylinder walls from over fueling and burned pistons. If the fuel trims are okay then heed the earlier advice but keep an eye on the level. I am telling you, these engines are EVIL! Yeah, I am paranoid about this and with good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I run my own personal truck 3000mi between LOF services, no more. I typically end up with an extra quart or so between services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Save yourself a buck and strain that extra quart off and put it back in your fuel tank, I mean that's where it came from right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'll get the spaghetti strainer out when I get home and get the fuel separated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Remind me to pass up that invite to your place if your making spaghetti for supper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 A lot of the other "stuff" I get has me working less and less on diesel... Just to add to what Keith has said, IIRC, the fuel trim numbers will read 0 off idle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Is there any way to give stern advice to a fleet that sometimes does or doesn't listen? This fleet has 6 6.4s right now, two trucks, driven by one division of the company don't idle them. Trucks are at ~27k miles and they show about 700 to 900 hours total. I warned them about the making oil when they got them and they listened. The other division has 2 utility trucks with inverters, they refuse to shut them down. One has 21k, 2200 hours, the other 18k with 2400 hours on it already. The oil comes out extremely thin, usually a gallon overfull on one, the other seems to use oil, it's full or low, but the oil is like water, even when cool/cold. I guess I could just let them blow, but I wouldn't wish these thing on anyone as the bodies on both can't come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Warning them verbally is a waste of time, document it in writing and have them sign the RO. Copy the RO and send it to the owner with a note that he will need to refer to this in a few months when you give him the news.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Writing or printing anything is also a waste of time for this particular fleet. They use a fleet management company that is "paperless", everything is done over the phone or internet with NO details or comments allowed. The fleet management company won't allow us to service them as WE see they need. There's a "deal" between a purchasing manager at the fleets office, and the fleet management company. He gets bonuses based on how LITTLE he spends on vehicle maintenance. On F550s that are loaded to 18,900 lbs MINIMUM weight with autos, we are not allowed to ever change trans fluids/filters, rear fluids or transfer case fluids on 4x4s. We usually have to go over their heads and call the managers of the various departments that use the trucks and get their divisions credit card number to do any work needed that the management company won't pay for. What's even worse, is that they also dictate how much oil we put in the trucks, no more than 6 qts on ANY gas engine, and no more than 12 on diesels. We are constantly back charging the company for the correct fill levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Now, more than ever, someone NEEDS to be made (at the very least) aware of the situation. Allowing a fleet management company to dictate this kind of stuff without covering your ass every and any which way you can is leaving yourself open to "we just paid what they charged us for"... This looks like the beginning of a no win situation.... FWIW - it is perfectly acceptable to "fire" poor customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I thought I would just add that excessive fuel in the crankcase also wears out rocker arm and pivots from lack of lubrication. They usually occur high mileage and might be out of warranty before a failure is identified. Just something else to think about besides total engine failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 The actual managers of each division that handle the trucks are told when each vehicle is picked up what's been done and what the fmco wouldn't do. We do have open permission to use one of their company credit cards when big jobs are needed. Just a phone call to that particular division manager is only needed. Anything safety related we call the company, not the fmc. It just gets done. The fmc likes to micromanage things like doing oil pan jobs on 7.3s. We usually end up with an open ended PO until we're done with it. It's never just a rotted pan, up pipes, manifolds, broken bolts, clutches, ps lines, rotten fuel supply lines all add up way too fast. The last one was over $11k, with parts and labor due to all the rot. I've been working on this fleet since 1993, they used to have an in house guy do it all. He moved up in the company and the newish guy is a person who's completely ignorant about vehicles and is lazy. Now they pay $500/mo on each truck exclusive of the truck's monthly payment for the privilege of having someone else manage the maintenance or lack thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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