batmantech Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 09 6.4 no start, now have p2291 followed ppt. Checking FRP at koeo is 0 psi and .5 volts strange becaues spec at KOEO is .49 v at 55 psi. How can the voltage be correct and press o? Anyone seen this before? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Likely needs a high pressure pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I would also check the secondary fuel filter housing for sings of water,did you have any wif codes,if you have either you then have to check for debris in the fuel system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 55 psi reading koeo would not concern me to much as long as the voltage is correct. That is not much pressure compared to what that cystem can produce so that will not affect it. Since your sensor reads .50 volts that indicates that you do not have a biased sensor. I would be looking into a pump failure if your frp is 0 psi while cranking. I just got done doing a 2010 f 450 with 12000 miles that shattered an injection pump. It also pumped no pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 There seems to be some confusion here... 55 psi at KOEO? On a 6.4? Dare I suggest a review of step 11 in the hard start/no start diag procedures? You will find that there is a misprint in the list of reference values. Personally, I would not trust the IDS PID for FRP for a base fuel pressure test on a 6.4. It be time to bust out a mechanical pressure gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Personally, I would not trust the IDS PID for FRP for a base fuel pressure test on a 6.4. It be time to bust out a mechanical pressure gauge. There is a mechanical gauge for checking FUEL RAIL pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Whoops... pardon my omission? I thought I had mentioned step 11 of the hard start/no start list? FWIW, this would be the same step 11 that leaves me wondering - they mention neither FRP PID nor do they suggest PVT PID... all they say is "scan tool" (even though they suggest testing at the HFCM - based on the adapter recommendation). Looking for the test port on the fuel rail would occupy ones time quite well, anyway. While we are on the subject... (along with Fords love of testing open circuit voltages and testing grounds with an ohmmeter) we need to see what it is that we are reading. In this case, base fuel pressure - which will be in the neighbourhood of 55 kilopascals. Looking for 55 PSI at this time is going to make ones day go bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 55 kilopascals = a smidge under 8 PSI when converted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 55 kilopascals = a smidge under 8 PSI when converted Oui!!! But looking at the reference values section in the PC/ED, we can see the onset of confusion. There, the KOEO FRP value is listed at 0.49ish volts and 55.1 PSI Considering the best we could ever expect to see under these circumstances is 8 PSI..... Considering the FRP sensor has a range of about 30,000 PSI, could it accurately depict 8 PSI at either of it's extremeties, anyway? Now... I might be reading too much (or not enough) into this scenario... but I see we have low ICP... Even if ICP begins to climb when we crank the engine, I think the smart money will be on a base fuel pressure test to help verify the sufficient part of sufficient clean fuel. As I've said before... I don't work on diesel as regular as I used to so help me out, here. Rather than check base fuel pressure at the HFCM using 310-159... I would consider attaaching a gauge to the schrader valve on the fuel cooler and read the pressure while attempting to start the engine. This would be both unintrusive and quick. I think the key is to determine what it is "they" want us to check for and then for us to use the most appropriate test (which may or may not be the test outlined in the manual) to arrive at a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I like checking for fuel at the valve on the fuel cooler, as well. Being as how this is on the RETURN side of the fuel system, it paints a picture for the technician that the fuel is making it through the whole fuel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmantech Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 Wow I feel better now! Jim you are right the reference value in the PE/ED is .5 at 55 psi. That was my first wrong path taken. I did Check fuel press at the schrader vale on the cooler It is 5-6 psi. Checking for no press now. Did glow plug mist test nothing. no leaks on injector return port test. will keep updating thanks so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmantech Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Checking for metal rust in fuel. Pulled the rail no signs of metal or rust. There is rust and metal in the secondary housing but that would just confirm the filter works. I have heard of the pump failing from contamination but has anyone seen the high press. pump just fail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 The last engine I replaced was due to a HPFP failure. I found debris in the high pressure fuel lines with no evidence of water, rust or other contamination in the supply system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmantech Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Thanks Keith, Have you heard of the high press. pump failing with no debris in the lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I had one with a long crank time which was slow to build HP fuel pressure and that was a bad pump. It was under 10k miles and didn't have any debris in the fuel either. If the owner had ignored the long crank it might have failed completely with more miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikill Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I have one now that I was told by PA to remove cover on pump and inspect the little vane pump inside. Everything seemed ok on inspection but who knows what they will say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmantech Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 Got the pump out now. This one has rust in ITP of high pres. pump. Per hotline and prior app. it will get all new fuel system parts. Thanks to all for the disscusion. It helps to talk to others who actually work on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I've got one now, P2291. Only builds 600-700psi of fuel pressure and it takes a lot of cranking to get there. frp .49v koeo. I'm not getting any flow from the high pressure bleed tool wierd part is the low pump was shot and wasn't working at all, put a pump in it, now have good low fuel pressure and verified no inlet restriction. no water that i can tell, filters are new, not even a spec of dirt in the secondary housing. i'm going to have to mist test thing thing though. it's cranking very strange, like it hits a hard spot every revolution, maybe it's trying to hydrolock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 #7 glow plug hole is a fuel geyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 this fucking truck sent me back to school. I have metal in the fuel. put #7 in it, it's fine for about 5 seconds of cranking. then bam it starts cranking like shit again trying to hydrolock. WTF!? pull the right bank of glowplugs out, no misting. start running compression incase a piston is sideways or missing, compression is all even, fuck, pull the left bank glowplugs AGAIN. crank, fuel shooting out of #2 hole. go to hell 6.4, pull the line for debris and sure enough. barely discernible, but it's there somehow I missed metal in my debris test on friday and #2 definitely wasn't misting got prior approval for a fuel system but I still haven't opened the pump yet. there's not a spec of anything in the secondary housing, it's the cleanest one I've seen yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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