brad Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 Just wondering if there is a procedure to reinstall an earlier calibration in a truck which has been programmed to a later calibration. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 Why would you want to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad Posted August 2, 2010 Author Share Posted August 2, 2010 customer says he was getting better fuel economy before on his original calibration. It could be just the ulsd fuel. I figured if possible i could program it back and then he could see. If it made no difference then i would just updated it again. Vehicle is off warranty anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 I do not believe you can go backwards. Even if you did a tear-tag program, I think it automatically installs the latest calibration in the truck. Even if you forced As-Built into the PCM, it puts the latest calibration in the truck. (I did this on Friday, to re-flash a 6.0 that had a new FICM installed but without the original FICM present to inhale data from.) And when I was done, the FICM had the latest rattle flash and the PCM was at the latest level. There are companies out there that are installing the "pilot injection, no inductive heat" flash in the FICM and PCM as a "performance" upgrade. I can't remember the name of the one company offhand -- but their tagline was something to the effect of "Return your 6.0 to it's former glory!" or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 Former glory? The 2003/2004 trucks ran like shit compared to the current calibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 It can be done but you'll need a blank FICM and an old copy of the IDS software, pre-56 I think it is, but it's not going to help the fuel milage issue that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 Whoa, big fella... back before stiction became an issue... way back when we still had pilot injection... I recall the 6.0 as being a real eye opener in the performance department... To this day I can recall my first 6.0 PDI (I can recall my first over-full crankcase on one, too... but that's a whole 'nother story). Upstairs at work, I have a big box of WDS discs and downstairs at work I have another big box of IDS discs (if you open the dictionary to "packrat" you will see my handsome face staring up off the page at you) but I'm not sure either WDS or IDS will let you proceed with "stale" software... Considering the software issues we had in about 2004, I'm not entirely sure that current 6.0 software isn't just a bunch of patched patches. I was digging through some old boxes the other day and came across DOS 6.0 on five and a half inch floppies... Ohhhhhhhh the temptation... if only it would work in this Windoze world.... Sidebar.... one of our techs was working on an Expedition with a 5.4. Ran like a bowl of smashed assholes... a reflash fixed it right up.... Back in the day, we would have had to change some parts to get it to do that... Today? If a computer strategy worked yesterday... why doesn't it work today? As usual... I feel soooooooooooo ooooold!!! but at least I still have my hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 I will take that copy of DOS 6.0, sir. As long as I can get a copy of Windows 3.11 as well as the DOS 6.2 upgrade discs. Can you imagine DOS 6.0 installation release discs on a CD? It'd be like 4mb! LMAO! Remember when an operating system was under 4mb? REMEMBER WHEN THERE WAS AN OS ON THE BIOS OF THE COMPUTER?!?!?! Thooooooooose were the daaaaaaaaaaaaaays! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 The 6.0L was an eye opener because it was new and an improvement over the 7.3L where throttle response and and power was concerned. The pilot injection and the calibration in general required EVERYTHING else to be spot on. As many of us suffered through the new model giddiness was short lived as EBP sensors, EGR valves, ICP sensors and turbochargers all threw monkey wrenches into the works. I for one do not understand how you could recall anything good about a calibration that simply didn't work well with the harware... with the exception of the quieter idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I had a customer ask me the exact same thing a while back, and hotline informed me it cannot be done (they wouldn't tell me) and it is against the law because you are not using the latest emission calibrations. Kinda like chipping a truck is what he made it sound like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 hotline informed me it cannot be done (they wouldn't tell me) Hence why you need a blank FICM, seems they found a way to write protect it, or so it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad Posted August 4, 2010 Author Share Posted August 4, 2010 so let say i have a blank ficm, and a ids 41 disc, how would i go about doing this? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Probably by forcing ASBuilt into the PCM, would be the easiest. Put the new FICM on the truck, set the IDS to ignore inhale data, and force a PMI on the PCM. If I was to hazard a guess. I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Well Brad, when I did mine all I did was enter the tear tag number off my PCM and then checked for a updated calibration, and away it went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikill Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I really can't see how it can be done unless you physically have a copy of the old program because from what I know of the IDS program is that no matter what version of IDS you have the latest calibration is going to be installed. Even with a blank FICM the IDS is going to give the latest calibration. FICM are coming pre-calibrated already anyway because when you install a new FICM you don't need to program it to start the vehicle. Even with As Built data the latest calbration always gets installed into any module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 FICM are coming pre-calibrated already anyway because when you install a new FICM you don't need to program it to start the vehicle. SOMETIMES. Once upon a time they never did. Nowadays I also assumed that all FICM's came plug-and-play but a good number of the ones I have put in have not been programmed. Seems to be hot or miss for some reason. Perhaps it is my source. I think that they should be plug-and-play for the simple reason that you or I or anyone without an IDS shouldn't be stuck with a blank at a time or in a place where a non-running truck is a problem. After all, we want the thing to start right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheldmann Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 Originally Posted By: Mikill FICM are coming pre-calibrated already anyway because when you install a new FICM you don't need to program it to start the vehicle. SOMETIMES. Once upon a time they never did. Nowadays I also assumed that all FICM's came plug-and-play but a good number of the ones I have put in have not been programmed. Seems to be hot or miss for some reason. Perhaps it is my source. I think that they should be plug-and-play for the simple reason that you or I or anyone without an IDS shouldn't be stuck with a blank at a time or in a place where a non-running truck is a problem. After all, we want the thing to start right? i was told the reason some have programs and some dont is because they are all remans now. and depending on what part is replaced and what original part is stil in the reman ficm it will have a program on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I think they should at least come with some sort of program so out in the field somewhere, you can at least get the hunk of shit running to get it back to the shop to program it. I guess the thought behind that, though, is if you've got the IDS there.... But on the other hand... if you're using an aftermarket scan tool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 I will take that copy of DOS 6.0, sir. As long as I can get a copy of Windows 3.11 as well as the DOS 6.2 upgrade discs. Can you imagine DOS 6.0 installation release discs on a CD? It'd be like 4mb! LMAO! Remember when an operating system was under 4mb? REMEMBER WHEN THERE WAS AN OS ON THE BIOS OF THE COMPUTER?!?!?! Thooooooooose were the daaaaaaaaaaaaaays! LOL. My first "real" computer... a 286 DX that I upgraded to SX.... had a 44 Mb HDD... My OS, Werd Perfeck and all my games (like Zork) fit wth room to spare... I <might> have WFWG 3.11 but anything that was on 3.5s is likely going to be long reformatted and gone... At one point in time, I had inherited a W95 installation ON FLOPPIES from somewhere. It was a HUMUNGOUS stack.... I once read somewhere that someone had installed Windoze Fer Wurkgroops on a swoopy late model system and it actually worked.... way better than it ever did in history. Makes me a firm believer that billy nerdnick is designing software that computers wont be able to run until the software is obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 so let say i have a blank ficm, and a ids 41 disc, how would i go about doing this? Thank you. Wasn't 41 a WDS disc? We have some WDS stuff for sale.... including a whole box of discs (including blue ones....). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 The 6.0L was an eye opener because it was new and an improvement over the 7.3L where throttle response and and power was concerned. The pilot injection and the calibration in general required EVERYTHING else to be spot on. As many of us suffered through the new model giddiness was short lived as EBP sensors, EGR valves, ICP sensors and turbochargers all threw monkey wrenches into the works. I for one do not understand how you could recall anything good about a calibration that simply didn't work well with the harware... with the exception of the quieter idle. What you say is quite true... but a LOT of the problems that killed pilot injection were owners shooting themselves in the foot... Cetane can help here... with all of Fords testing, I wonder if (included in the abuse testing) things like extended idling, extended oil change intervals, using the same oil that Grandad did - all of the wonderful homeotherapeutic bullshit "what diesels like" that we see people do was part of the test regimen? I recall that switching from 15W40 to 10W30 did a LOT to help trucks that had the morning romps. I also recall that there was a distinct concern with the programming crew as each new flash seemed to create twice as many problems as it fixed.... Uncle Al may be coming to visit.... but I also have a tendency to look at the coin a different way from many... Some people call it "he wierrrrrrrdddddd". And yes... the calibration didn't work well with the injectors (planishing gave us sticition gave us running problems that gave us shit in the after-treatments) but that doesn't explain the several customers that I have that know diesels well that NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Maybe my side of the coin is the one that was facing UP in the wishing well - all covered in algae and goldfish droppings. I need to apply the same consideration to the 6.0L when it was new as I do for the 6.4L and the 6.7L. We don't need to opine on this as looking back from here, the 6.0L was a piece of crap out of the box in comparison. I don't see how you could deny that having lived through that period of time as a technician. It is a safe bet that all three engines faced similar testing. We had 6.0L trucks practically just off the carrier that were surging, stalling, smoking and severely hesitating not to mention the dozen or so trucks that had crankcases full of fuel. Forget about calibrations for a moment, how could you tell if updates were creating new issues with progressively new hardware problems? First we had funky ICP sensors, then it was EBP sensors, then it was engine and FICM harnesses, then it was EGR valves, then it was sticking turbos and failed head bolts/head gaskets, now it is EGR coolers and oil coolers, HPOP's and seals, back to sticking turbos and ICP sensors... Don't forgit the rusty fuel tanks and MORE injectors! Yeah, I know, that is not the engine's fault but I had to add it for good measure. All of that aside, take a 2003 6.0L with all the known problems addressed I will take today's calibration over the original calibration any day. I am absolutely convinced that they have never started and run better. What? What? It's too loud? IT'S A DIESEL TRUCK DOUCHE-BAG! You been watchin PowerStrokeHelp.com Jim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Well..... I guess I am going to be a "glass is half full" guy and play up to your "glass is half empty" point of view... You don't own a 6.0 and probably never will. I don't own one and probably never will... both of us for different reasons. So.... we have one talented diesel tech with a tag line that reads "proud not to own a 6.0" (the message that sends to your customers, coworkers, acquaintances and so forth can be mixed). We have one talented diesel tech with a 2003 6.0 - head studs and an Edge set in tow mode who is quite proud to own and quite pleased with his truck. Reconcile that for me. FWIW.. MY reason for not having a 6.0... or ANY diesel? I last put gas in my pickup before my birthday (July 3rd)... the car about the same time... the bike? I bought gas this year, I remember that. I would LOVE to have a diesel when I hook up my holiday trailer.... but I put less than 100 miles a year on that puppy. I try to make sure I change the oil in my truck (and my car) at least three times a year.... that can come into an oil change in as little as 2000 kilometers... this is expensive enough, thank you very much. Now... I had written many paragraphs on a subject that had my veins pounding in my temples in this thread... I decided they were a little inciteful and I need to think more about them. Later this weekend, I hope to add to the "stealership" thread with at least part of what I was trying to say there... If you aren't pissed at me now...... My take on the 6.0? It's like chopsticks... some people can get them to work.... for the rest - there's always a spoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 My take on the 6.0? It's like chopsticks... some people can get them to work.... for the rest - there's always a spoon. Thats a unique way of looking at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 We have one talented diesel tech with a 2003 6.0 - head studs and an Edge set in tow mode who is quite proud to own and quite pleased with his truck. You talking about me again Jim????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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