Mekanik Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 I got done taking six ASE recerts the other day and felt REALLY relieved. Not only did I pass all the tests, but I did very well. A little later I was texting a younger tech I used to work with and he reminded me that Ford doesn't require ASE tests anymore. They aren't even required to be Diesel Certified. I remember reading a memo about this a while ago, but totally forgot. There is no way I'm just going to stop taking ASE tests and loose my ASE certifications because I worked very hard to get them and you never know when you might need them on a resume'. Who knows, some day they may be required again for Ford certification. Besides, my employer reimburses me for ASE tests as soon as I sign up. I must say though, it takes a lot of anxiety out of recertifying for L2 in November, and then to re-certifying for L1 next spring. Part of me is a little annoyed that ASE tests aren't required anymore. I had to work my ass off to become a Ford Master, Senior Master, Diesel Certified, so why shouldn't everyone else have to work as hard as I did? Why should it be easier to become Diesel Certified? What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Training has been a sore subject for me. I am big supporter of training and certification and early in my career I spent a lot of effort into it and I am proud of what I have done both with training and with my career. But... Unfortunately the company I work for has a lackadaisical approach in that it only happens when it is needed... as in shop or technician competency. I have 24 years experience. I went to a technical school. I have been in the Ford program for 22 years. I have been on a wait list for several classes, one for well over a year. I am still not a Senior Master. I am losing my interest in training because of my company and Ford's wait lists not to mention falling wages. ASE's? BAH! I am ambivalent. That is what I think right now. ASE's are great, go get em if they matter to you. I don't think they should be required as PART of any manufacturers curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 I hate ASE's with a passion, BUT I have em and now I am damn sure gonna keep them current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 It's a shame Ford and your respective employers do not put more emphasis on continued training and testing. Without it, our trade falls even lower than it is now. ASE certs are valuable in the aftermarket, too, and a requirement for many government jobs. Keep that in mind- there's no written guarantee that your employer or your job will be there for eternity. You may need to join the aftermarket work force at some point in your life. I am a staunch supporter of ASE testing but I am also disappointed at the hundreds of dollars it takes to keep my Masters and L1/L2 current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Meanwrench Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I am a huge supporter of ASE. In the indy/fleet world, finding competent technicians is a challenge even for veteran service managers. At least if I have a tech with ASE certs either he cared enough to buy and read a study guide to pass the exam or even better, he knows his shit. I recently hired a technical school/ASSET grad that had 8 years at a Ford dealer. Did not know how to identify a grade 8 bolt and installed calipers bleeders down and could not figure out why he could not get air out of the system. I spend ALOT of money for our subcription to STARS and hold my employees accountable for utilizing it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Ford techs but I had one bad experience and perfer to look for ASE certs. Sorry for the long rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 I am a supporter of any training or certification that is available, be it ASE, ASSET, Red seal, or what have you. It shows me that the tech has the ambition to take the effort to get certified. Certification is not the end of the process. As the industry is constantly changing, certification must be maintained, and should be mandatory. If we are all held to a higher standard it may be a first step toward removing the stigma of working in the automotive industry. As much as training and certification are necessary, sometimes there are people who "just don't get it", with the upside down calipers being a good example. I don't recall anywhere in my training over the last 28 years being told that brake fluid is heavier than air therefore the bleeder should be at the top. Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way, and unfortunatly that is not taught as part of the certification process. I guess the whole point of my rant is it is too easy to become a mechanic. If we were all held to a higher standard, meaning tougher courses continuing education, and universal certification, perhaps the less than qualified guys would be weeded out. It is not easy to diagnose correctly and repair a motor vehicle correctly. Don't send me someone to train as a tech just because they can't do anything else. When some hack destroys someone elses vehicle and charges him to do it it makes everyone look bad, stealership or indie. I have been told "you mechanics are all the same" I can assure you I am not the same as the guy that leaves the injectors loose, or the wiring harness lying on the egr tube, or any of the thousands of examples of hackage I have seen throughout the years. It is late Friday and I am cranky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 I know of at least two Senior Masters that cant fix a sandwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Is it true in the early 90's ford discontinued all classroom training for a while and guys had to get there certs on self training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Meanwrench Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 I agree with both Keith and mrbudge. There are "techs" out there that I would not want working on my lawnmower,let alone a vehicle. I use ASE as a starting point in the hire process and try to feel them out in an interview. I am very upfront with all candidates - I'm an anal a**hole that truly believes in fixing it right the first time. In the EMS business, there is just too much to lose by hacking and cobbing. If it ever came to that,id hang up the wrenches for good. I enjoy the continuing education i get from STARS and anywhere else I can get it. Just wish I had access to the classroom time you Ford guys get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 I've worked with 2 ase certified mechanics before, one guy did not how to change a timing belt(indy shop) and the another guy could'nt find a blown fuse or diagnose a flat tire and he also could barley exeed 35 labor hours a week-mostly cpo and it was busey-that was them. Those tests are pretty difficult though, the last time i took an ase exam was in 95, i did not study and failed the test by one point and i never looked back. But anyone that can pass those tests i respect them because the questions are pretty difficult. Some guys could be really exellent techs-able to diag and repair anything that rolls into their bay, but maybe they just are not good at taking tests. One time at ford school there was one tech from south N. Jersey that was sitting next to me during the test and all his answers were blank and asked me to copy my answers-he was sweating bullets and the a/c was so cold i wished i took a sweater with me. Though talking to the kid it seemed like he knew his stuff. Over the years though i took advantage of any training i could get whether it was classroom or web. We have web training with access to classes(as long as you have the prereqs) through ford fleet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 There is an inherent problem with ASE certifications.... it reminds me too much of having the fox minding the henhouse.... FWIW (and I am sure I have said this before) ASE tried making a push into Canada.... Why, I'm not sure because we have GOVERNMENT CERTIFICATION. Yes, we also have many techs that appear to have chosen the wrong career path. ASE is a "for profit" endeavour.... am I the only one to see a problem here? When ASE made their push in Canada, I spent a bunch of money (and time) to take some ASE tests.... Not bragging, I passed easily - you would have to be unique not to. Five years later, ASE tried to make me take these same tests over again.... 'Scuse me? have the laws of physics changed with the passage of time? If you knew air conditioning basics five years ago... it stands to reason you know air conditioning basics today.... How you use this knowledge and IF you use this knowledge... Make the cheque payable to ASE... you can take the test often enough to eventually be right.... Look at it this way... if you passed an ASE test five years ago - why wouldn't you pass it today? FWIW... I have enough certificates to paper the biggest wall in the biggest house. If I didn't fix the problem.... what do certificates mean? Lucky guess testing should have NO PLACE in todays marketplace. Training is good.... what you do with it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 I completely agree with Jims quote. I think Ford should stick to Fords certs and not care about ASE's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 I've worked with 2 ase certified mechanics before You seriously have only worked with two ASE certified techs? Yes there are some ASE Masters that I wouldn't want fixing my car, just as there are Senior Masters that can't fix a sandwich. Either way, I think that's a poor excuse to avoid certification. There may come a time when we either have to find another job, or there may be an opportunity for a different job that isn't in a car dealership, but you still have to prove your knowledge or justify the paycheck that you want. That is when these ASE certifications will come in handy. As far as Jim's comment, I'm not familiar with Canada's certification system, so maybe this situation is completely different north of the border. As far as recertifying, I have noticed a change in ASE tests from when I started taking them only ten years ago. The newer tests have more questions about current technology. Just because someone could pass a test on points, condensers, and carburetors thirty years ago, does not mean they know anything about OBD 2, multiplexing, or what a catalyst monitor should read and why. FWIW, the last shop I worked at, our boss said he would not hire another journeyman tech unless he was AT LEAST an ASE Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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