Keith Browning Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 From tfbglobal.com Is this really possible? I would think that with the microscope Ford has placed this engine and HPOP failures under something like this would have been found Quote: If the primary filter in the frame mounted HFCM becomes restricted, the high pressure fuel pump will draw un-filtered reverse flow through the fuel return line. The evidence is found in the fuel cooler (beyond the secondary filter) debris that could not have passed any other way. In many cases the inlet port of the frame mounted HFCM is contaminated with rust, galvanized flakes, water and aluminum oxide. Although this should not be detrimental to the function of the HFCM and primary filter, this is not the place to collect foreign material. Consider that there are never complaints of low power just prior to a catastrophic fuel system failure. During diagnosis of the fuel system failure, evidence of non-engine debris is found in the fuel cooler and in the secondary filter bowl, on the clean side! When the primary filter in the HFCM becomes restricted, or the secondary filter for that matter, the only reverse fuel flow protection for the fuel injection is the factory neoprene flapper at the end of the fuel return pipe in the tank. The flapper is promptly sucked inverted allowing un-filtered fuel into the injection system. No low power warning of a restricted fuel filter. Our Fuel Sentinel Kit includes all materials needed to protect your engine from fuel contaminants, in conjunction with the OEM filters. While our kit is complete, mounting hardware, hoses, clamps and documentation, installation requires skill beyond what most do it yourself persons have. The metal fuel lines must be cut using a high quality tubing cutter, and in the case of the fuel return line, the line should be removed using a disconnect tool. Our instructions provide complete information on methods and tools needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I think that's part of the reason behind the updated fuel filter parts, is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Looks like a do-it-yourself persons installed that... Fuck that looks terrible. I especially like the wiring. And the wire (being yellow, likely has power to it), wrapped around the steel fuel line. Beeeeauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Also... wouldn't an easier solution be to just buy a fuel pressure gauge and isolator and screw it onto the test port at the cooler? Or, failing that, an electric switch set to come on at a pre-set pressure, and a warning lamp on the dash? Just kinda thinking out loud here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 20, 2010 Author Share Posted August 20, 2010 I think that's part of the reason behind the updated fuel filter parts, is it not? What new fuel filter parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 The 6.4 fuel filter updated to an FD-4017 (I think, I may be wrong) and there is now a sealing O-ring on the bottom of the filter that seals the filter to the HFCM. It had something to do with when the filter got restricted enough it would bypass and suck dirty fuel/water through anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 20, 2010 Author Share Posted August 20, 2010 Oh yes that I am aware of. The condition described here, if I am not mistaken, is that the HPOP will draw fuel back through the return line should the primary filter in the HFCM become clogged. But they claim that when this happens contamination will somehow bypass the secondary filter as evidenced by debris found in the fuel cooler. If you look at the system fuel flow diagram on page 29 of the 6.4L CTB I don't see how this is possible. The HPFP would still be drawing fuel through the primary filter even is fuel was reverse flowing back through the return line. Also, the fuel cooler is in the return circuit of the engine fuel system therefore dirty fuel from the return line should still not reach the fuel cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Ohhhhhh...I see now... Flat rate reading. I'm not quite sure how that is even possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 <When the primary filter in the HFCM becomes restricted, or the secondary filter for that matter> as in "I've put 50,000 on my truck - maybe I might change the fuel filters on my truck next month"? I would opine that, by the time we sucked that little nipple outside in, there should be some driveability issues.... Having said that, I remember that many DIYers will post "I've been trying to fix this for nearly six years now... and the stealership expects me to pay to fix it...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 I can agree that changing your fuel filters when you are supposed to will basically render this a needless modification but what about or those owners of trucks with those defective aft-axle fuel tanks that rust on the inside? A fuel tank should never rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Here is where we get into that nitty gritty stuff... Of course the innards of a fuel tank should never rust (I imagine it is only a matter time before we see plastic aft axle tanks - or the small to medium size diesel engine is no longer economically feasible). The question remains.... how did the water that makes the rust get in there? Once the tank starts rusting, it becmoes a moot point and we all stand around pointing fingers at each other. Back in the stone ages, back when me and Ogg were chiselling tread patterns into them new fangled granite wheels, fuel tanks had a bung in the low point. It was rare to have the need to remove it... but it was there. The world I grew up in is such a very different world from the one I live in. There's a lot of things happen to a car that never used to happen... and it all centres around the almighty dollar being first and the customer being second. I'm shocked and amazed and disappointed in the world around me.... but I can't say I'm surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 The question remains.... how did the water that makes the rust get in there? Once the tank starts rusting, it becomes a moot point and we all stand around pointing fingers at each other. First, it is not a moot point at all. THE TANKS SHOULD NOT RUST. Period. Second, water is probably the most common fuel contaminant due to condensation that forms on the walls of the tanks - a natural and common condition. This is something we should all be aware of. Aside from that Jim, yes, there are a number of ways water can find it's way into the tank whether it is pumped in with the fuel or leaked in through poorly installed custom filler necks, broken/missing parts or snow packing on top of the tank vent. Finger pointing? Well okay we can do that too. The steel tanks are not made from galvanized steel and rely on a coating to protect them. Ford has stated that unapproved fuels and additives cause the lining to de-laminate. The majority of customers with fuel tank issues reportedly do not use anything but straight #2 diesel fuel and rarely or never use additives other than anti-gel winterizing additives. In most instances I believe them. However these are things that the manufacturer should expect or anticipate are going to be put into the fuel tanks and likewise should engineer and produce them accordingly. My observation is that most, if not ALL of the rusted tanks that have come through my dealership had NO WATER in the bottom of the tank, no reports of the WIF coming on and were not, I repeat NOT DE-LAMINATED. The pattern failure here is rust that forms on the top of the tanks and along the vertical edges particularly near the seams and edges of the stamped ridges where the coating is likely to be applied thinner. In almost every one of these tanks the bottom surfaces are in perfect condition. This points directly to the quality of and the application of the lining. Yes sir, I have seen de-laminated tanks where every surface has large sheets of the lining removed exposing shiny steel with minor rust above the fuel line. Then and only then would I consider looking to the customer for an explanation or an approval to repair I hope that the five-month lack of tank supply is an indication that Ford is finally addressing this with a newly designed fuel tank. Plastic would indeed be a better choice as far as I am concerned. Ford used to say that the use of Biodiesel is causing this yet we now have trucks approved to use B20... that have the same tanks installed in them. Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I've set out to reply to this post several times... but the whole deal becomes too complex... I did state that the innards of a fuel tank should not rust.. but they do. Is that a reflection on process? Or is that a reflection on profitability? Or could it simply be shoddy architecture? Ford was charging $40 for the park brake adjuster hole plug on a half ton... and we have trouble getting paid for spending a half hour adjusting tire pressures and retraining sensors. The world isn't fair. We, as customers, have driven the marketplace (which, in turn, will take advantage of us at every step).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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