Jim Warman Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Just before he went on holiday, Dwayne slam dunked a long block into an 05ish F550. Not 200 kilometers later, this marvelous feat of engineering that we love to call a "Ford Quality Repaint" insinuated itself into my universe. Hydrolocked at least twice that I know of, the crankcase was about 2 inches overfull... With a contribution code for #4, I figured I had it made in the shade and popped the glow plug out of #4..... Oooops. So I popped out ALL of the glow plugs and managed to blast a geyser of fuel nearly halfway across the shop from #6. #6 injector is loose and when it came out, the lower O-ring was burned and the injector was carboned badly on the outside of the barrel. #2 was nearly in the same shape. Got the go ahead for a cylinder head and, when I got it off (heh-heh.... heh-heh... he said "got it off"... heh-heh...), I found the bottom broken out of #6 injector cup. Put it all back together and it ran like a champ.... That was a little over a week ago (I had to stay late on Saturday to finish it). Fast forward to Wednesday. Truck is back with identical symptoms... Now... I was rushed putting this thing together.... they even kept sending me helpers (and then promptly stealing them back after I gave them an assignment). I felt sick to my stomach... could I have missed torquing the new injectors? Turns out I have an injector cup on #7 with the identical problem as I had on #6. The bottom is broken out - quite neatly I might add.... The engine has been hydrolocked a few more times.... the crankcase is about 2 inches overfull. Both the customer and I are a bit leery of FQRs right now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Service replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 I had the same thing happen to me. The bottom of the injector cup broken do to a loose injector. I got lucky it did not damage the engine. I installed new injector and checked fuel pressure just to make sure and found nothing wrong. That was on the second reman I put in. The first reman I put in this truck came back a week later full of coolant in the oil. It really sucks being in that situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 You doing these in chassis or cab off? Just being nosey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 I used to do cab off for 6.0 but now I like just doing in chassis. 6.4 is cab off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I'm physically unable to do a head cab on, so cabs come off. In the instance that the cab can't come off, it goes down the hall to my big brother Mike, who is the other heavy-line guy. Me being the other heavy line guy, that's a cripple. <Sigh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Jim, do you still have the heads? If you do can you yank one of the other cups and see what type of sealer they used when the cups were installed? I have seen some of these having the wrong sealer used and popping out. I don't know if it's been due to the sealer or the hold-downs. Be interesting to find out though. We use the Loctite 620 on 7.3/6.0/444/530 heads. Just off hand do you have a thread gauge to check the holddown bolts for possible stretching? I know it doesn't use much torque but I'm looking for a reason why this would happen other than installer problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I recall a couple of years ago there was an issue with the hold down bolts supposedly stretching from over tightening. It faded from Ford's database fairly quickly. I am skeptical to this day whether that was ever a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofaster23 Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 From my experience, I'd say 85% of the 6007 and 6006 reman 6.0's we do come back in less than a year needing another engine. I just finished an ambulance that had a 6006 put in 40,000 miles ago, came in with the block windowed. Come to think of it, they are all almost all crank/connecting rod related. I've had about five this year where it looks like the connecting rod bolts just shear off, launching the rod into the block. I had another 6007 I put in an ambulance that cranked and started up fine the first time I started it, about 10 minutes later the low oil pressure warning light came on. I see oil pouring from the switch so I'm like ok, I'll throw one on in the morning. I throw one on the next day, now it's a crank no start. Long story short, the plug for the oil galley that feeds the HP oil pump was missing. When I had the rear engine cover off it was nowhere to be found, never installed. The 6007 I just got finished with had the EGR cooler hose clocked wrong, I'm glad I caught that right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 1, 2010 Author Share Posted September 1, 2010 Brad... I'm doing these cab on.... the spare tire carrier projects over the cab but that ain't no big thaing..... Even at my age, I have retained a certain amount of flexibility (sorry for the dig, Aaron ) and working over the fender ain't such a big deal. My days are a series of interruptions interspersed with a series of interruptions.... the fewer things I leave to forget - the better off I am. Larry... looks like I will be doing cup(s) this time... Not sure about bolt stretch happening ( I know many techs that commit the 28 pound torque value to memory and use it no matter which hold down bolts they have ). #7 cup is definitely broke out in the bottom.... #1 cup looks "odd" and blew mist when I cranked it over with the GPs out but the injector was tight and had no obvious visible concerns on removal. I'll try to remember to put a pitch gauge against the bolts just for you. For you and me, quality is job 1..... For Ford profits is job 1. But that doesn't matter.... the world we know is hell bent on having all of us work for Omni Consumer Products. Money? I don't need no steenking money... I got company scrip ( I ain't Nostradamus.... but my batting average is pretty good ). Required reading... the goose that laid the golden egg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Love your comments Jim/Gym..... I just like to be able to assist being that these are all falling out of warranty. If we are seeing failures due to holddown bolts it would be nice to see. I remember a while ago that Cat. mandated replacing injector holddown bolts when pulling a injector, I just don't remember what engine......I think the 3126, but not sure......Looking when I get a chance though........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofaster23 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 A little FQR update. That last 6007 I put in an ambulance made it almost an entire week. It's back right now with 20% low compression on two different cylinders and has lower end noise. A couple of weeks ago another tech put a complete reman turbo on an 03' 6.0L. It went about 400 miles until it came back with a P132B and P0401. It was dropped off at operating temp so I went ahead and did an EGR system test, EGR valve travel test failed. I removed the valve, found mild coking deposits but the intake was clean. I put an EGR valve in it, reset KAM, performed a KOEO, and park it out back to learn VGT strategy. 25 minutes later an ASSET kit comes by and asks me "should that truck be smoking so bad"? I go out and see white smoke pouring from the exhaust. "EGR cooler probably bad, makes sense but customer wasn't complaining of loosing coolant". I go and shut the truck off, take the keys out but the engine is still going. I ran into the shop to find a CO2 fire extinguisher, I made it 10 feet until it took off, probably double WOT. It basically suffocated itself from oil and quit. I found the compressor wheel for the turbo seized in the housing and dumping oil into the charge air cooler. After disconnecting the cold side CAC the engine runs but not so well, gotta tear it down on tuesday. The last run away I had was two years ago, another 03' F-550 with a reman complete turbo that went bad. That one windowed the block and took out the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Clyde Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Put an FQR in a CN rail truck a couple of weeks ago complete drop in, stayed late to finish it and fire it. Started up and immediately began missing on #8. Went home to have a cold one and start fresh in the morning, 50 psi compression on #8. Apparently someone f#$%% up the rebuild process. Keep up the good work guys !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Every Cat engine gets new injector hold down bolts. It was about 5 or 6 years ago I think we had a rash of injector sealing issues. The fix was using new hold down bolts every single time. We also increased the torque on the bolts if I remember correctly. I know ford does not tell us to replace the bolts but I do anyway, cheap insurance. They are pretty little bolts to hold a lot of pressure when you think about it. Just my opinion and practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 A hotline engineer once told me that there's been some reports that microscopic cracks in the hole that fastens the injector holddown causing oil to get into the threads causing them to loosten up. The engineer instructed me to blow compressed air into the holes to remove any oil-which i do anyway. All the ones i saw loose were from previous techs not using a torque wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 Larry.. so far I have only had the time to pull the cup with the bottom burned out... I did get some pics but haven't had time to download my camera (Sorry Bruce, I used my shitty camera), However.... there is NO sign of sealer on the cup - top or bottom.... Tuesday or so I should have the other cup out (you need to appreciate how far behind I usually am and how it makes me feel). I would be surprised to find sealer on any of these objects. Edmonton area based automotive rebuilding shops favour "boat people" as employees. They work cheap, owe their souls to uncaring countrymen (people they used to live beside) and rarely complain. Slave labour is alive and well and we are supporting it. You might find that the guy installing the cups improperly has an MBa in his home land.... In north America it was a case of "pizza chef", barber or engine rebuilder. We joke that new immigrants to Canada get a burger flipper and a pail of red sauce as entry gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 As long as the red sauce is loctite I don't mind. These diesels vibrate more than your girl's favorite/favourite friend. I recommend to everyone of my customers to get real used to using it. Especially if they pull it apart.....Better to be safe than sorry. As for the Cat's replacing holdown bolts....I'm gonna order in a few sets of the Ford holddown bolts and the Cat's as well. I will talk to my fuel shop guy on Tuesday and encourage him to sell them along with documenting the torque specs on every injector job, Whether a test,repair, or replace...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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