Brad Clayton Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Took the web based training on this interesting little box, yesterday. Ford managed to take the complications out of a traditional automatic and at the same time complicate the hell out of a manual trans. Some wild (translates as a case of mild driver laziness) ideas going on in there, nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 This Getrag trans has actually been around for a while.... In production Volvo and Audi cars for a few years (at least) and in race cars for longer (First conceived before WW2). There are other manufacturers with their own versions and some have even more than 6 speeds. You really need to drive one to appreciate it.. Put it in drive and keep your foot on the brake - NOTHING HAPPENS. No "slip/bump" as it slides into low. Take your foot off the brake and you can feel it start to engage the clutch... Too cool!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 I was not aware of this trans. I drove the new Fiesta and thought the thing shifted really weird. The whole driving experience was weird from the time I left the parking lot to when I got back. Didn't put two and two together til I was told to take the new course. Kinda like when customers first started driving cars with CVT's. I like to hold the throttle at 2 grand and see how fast I can get it going without wavering from said rpm's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Isn't this transmission similar in principle to the ones used on heavy trucks in the class 8 and higher categories, that use two mechanical solenoids in place of a manual shifter? I believe on the heavy trucks you are still required to manually engage the clutch from stops though, if I recall correctly unlike the Fiesta. Those of you wanting to go WAY back, anyone remember Volkswagen's "automatic stick shift" that was optional in the original Beetles? Jim, I'm sure you're old enough to remember them. I believe this particular transmission featured three fully synchronized forward gears, and employed the use of both a torque converter and a clutch that was vacuum operated. Just wasn't too sure how the clutch was disengaged to select a gear from a stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Mike.. on that particular Beetle, the shifter was a two piece stick and had a spring loaded contact between the halves. Applying pressure to the shift knob would close the contacts and a vacuum solenoid would disengage the clutch. This was NOT the system for someone that liked to rest their hand on the stick.... and you had to get the adjustment right on the shifter. I worked at a VW/Porsche/Audi dealer in the early 70s and only ever saw three of those semi-automatics... Not one of VWs biggest selling options. We saw more Things than those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Mike.. on that particular Beetle, the shifter was a two piece stick and had a spring loaded contact between the halves. Applying pressure to the shift knob would close the contacts and a vacuum solenoid would disengage the clutch. This was NOT the system for someone that liked to rest their hand on the stick.... and you had to get the adjustment right on the shifter. I worked at a VW/Porsche/Audi dealer in the early 70s and only ever saw three of those semi-automatics... Not one of VWs biggest selling options. We saw more Things than those. That would be the Volkswagen THING, as in the four door convertible right? Thanks for the clarification on how it operates. I always wondered how they worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Those of you wanting to go WAY back, anyone remember Volkswagen's "automatic stick shift" that was optional in the original Beetles? Jim, I'm sure you're old enough to remember them. I believe this particular transmission featured three fully synchronized forward gears, and employed the use of both a torque converter and a clutch that was vacuum operated. Just wasn't too sure how the clutch was disengaged to select a gear from a stop. Maybe "WAY back" to you young whippersnappers.... I'm an aircooled VW head in addition to everything else. You are correct about the AutoStick. It has a microswitch in the gearshift lever so as soon as you move the lever, the vacuum operated clutch disengaged so you can shift into gear. Most of the time you only shifted from Second to High (2-3). Low was not used often. (I think they were actually labeled as L, 1 and 2 IIRC) Somewhat of a weird trans, the guys in VW circles who love them really love them, but I wouldn't have one. I converted several in the past from AS to 4 speed- very easy if the clutch cable tube is present (in which most were). I'd like to know more about this Fiesta tranny- I wonder if it's an automated trans- which is the name for a manual shifted by computer with some kind of automatic clutch setup (Eaton AutoShift still has a clutch pedal, UltraShift is a two pedal with no clutch pedal). With Eaton AutoShift you only use the clutch when you start out and stop, the ECUs do the rest. With Ultrashift the dual disc clutch has a set of centrifugal weights that apply it at about 800ish rpm. If it's so, the Fiesta sounds like an UltraShift. U-S are weird to drive- you simply hold the AP to the floor like it's an Allison, but it sounds like a 9 speed going through the gears with a distinct delay when it's shifting as the engine drops RPM and the ECU selects the next gear when the RPMs are "just" right. I absolutely LOVE the technology in these. It's cool- the ECUs are perfect, never any gear raking. Automated trannies are becoming more popular in long haul applications because they give the same MPG as a manual. Drivers are becoming less "able" these days and many long haul drivers cannot drive a stick. Where is this world going to when a semi driver can't drive a stickshift tranny..... Here's a shot from a trade show of an UltraShift with the X-Y motors and automatic clutch shown clearly. Edit- I took so long to type this that Jim and Mike beat me to the punch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 DPS6 is an "automatically shifted manual transmission". Two clutches connected to two concentric input shafts. One clutch applies for 1 - 3 - 5, the other for 2 - 4 - 6. In this way, Ford tells us, there is 'never' a time when the engine isn't connected to the driving wheels. On hard acceleration, I didn't really notice any difference between this and a conventional auto trans. Light throttle and low speeds can give mixed signals to the driver - feels like the clutches might be trying to figure out what you really want to do - at one point, I thought I could feel something modulating briefly. Coast downs with no brake applied can feel a bit different - after a few seconds of engine braking there is a "feeling" like the engine disconnects but I can't be sure. No clutch pedal and no shifting by the driver - I understand that paddle shifters may be coming on some models. FWIW, the last truck I drove professionally had a RTO12515 and a 4 speed tucked in behind that (at one point the owner needed a power tower). That gave a few overdrives and some long lloonngg legs. It had a Silver 92 (8V92T for the uninitiated - 425 horse, I recall) opened up to (IIRC) about 2800 rpm. Empty and running 5 axle two shifts could have you from 0 to over 70 mph.... quick enough to make the wiener in the Volvo look twice as I went by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 Here is a pretty good slide show of some of its details: www.sae.org/dlymagazineimages/8287_9084_ACT.ppt Of the two input shafts, one is hollow and the other slides thru it. The flywheel is sandwiched between two clutches. One input shaft sticks out further into one clutch and the hollow shaft rides on the clutch on the other side. The gears are configured so that the unit can engage either clutch to spin one input shaft at a time to engage the evens and odds without locking the box up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 I had heard some time ago that F650/F750 trucks were going to have this type of trans mission in them. I haven't seen any nor have I snooped into the service literature though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Hope everyone gets used to them quick, they are supposed to be coming in the new Focus next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 We took one out on the local side street our shop is on. I didn't think it was too different. I guess if I went for a real ride for a few miles I might think differently. For a car as small as the Fiesta is I thought it was quite solid and quiet, by far a major leap past the old Festiva and Aspire. I don't see anyone that is mush bigger than me would be comfortable in it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Just out of curiosity do you think a Fiesta would fit in an 8 foot Super Duty bed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 You can make anything fit anywhere you want it to - all you need is a big enough hammer One thing I forgot to mention.... I found it extremely difficult to stay at a reasonable rate of speed..... a rate of speed that wont have you saying "HOLLLEEEEE FFFFUUUUUUUU......." when you see the price on the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Just out of curiosity do you think a Fiesta would fit in an 8 foot Super Duty bed? It might, a buddy of mine loaded a VW Rabbit into the bed of a pickup years ago. He had to put planks down for the rear tires to sit on, but it did fit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted September 26, 2010 Author Share Posted September 26, 2010 Quote: Edit- I took so long to type this that Jim and Mike beat me to the punch.... Don't ya love when that happens? It's like a nice little surprise. Thankfully we don't have that big a crowd around here, as slow as I type, I wouldn't never get a word in edge wise. Side bar: dictionary.com is one my most used items in the tech resource tool bar. You don't even wanna know how I was trying to spell "surprise". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 An Austin Mini will fit in the back of a 75 F100, you just have to leave the tailgate down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 During one of the many practical joke wars in the used car dept at my shop,it was discovered that a mustang will fit into a E-box van. the look the guys face was priceless when he was thinking that they had just moved his car and started pushing the button on his key fob to find it....... beep.....beep.....beep HA!!!!! I gotta see if sombody has a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.