GregH Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 After flashing several of these trucks recently, I came upon one that choked on the program. After come back and forth with the truck and the hotline, we determine that the truck will require a replacement PCM. The symptom was simply that the truck wouldn't start after programming. Everything else completed properly. During testing to determine the problem, I found that the IDS could correctly identify the vehicle, but for any operation that required the key to be turned on - PMI and others - the IDS would not recognize that the key was on. Interestingly, retrieving continuous codes worked fine. That does require the key to be on, I think. Anyway, a PCM arrives. Installed. Programmed. Parameter reset. Engine no crank. More testing. P161A stored in PCM. Perform parameter reset again. No dice. Hotline contact. Advised to replace BCM, now. No explanation, just do it grease monkey. BCM's are D99. 2400 miles on the odometer... awesome. Here's the hotline transcripts: Quote: Description of vehicle concern: An error occured while programming this vehicle under 10B17. After programming the PCM, the IDS requested I "start or crank the engine for 5 seconds." The engine would not crank. After repeating this request a few more times, the IDS reported that there were several possible reasons - PATS, incorrectly flashed module, etc - and the IDS proceded to program the TCM. The TCM programmed correctly, and the engine still will not start. The IDS also reported that the software level in the PCM is invalid for the truck. Subsequent reprogramming procedures result in the same no start concern. PMI on the PCM, with as-built data retrieved from the web still result in a no start concern. The current IDS session has not been terminated. Diagnostics performed: none Parts replaced: none Question: Have you checked powers and grounds to the PCM and FICM? Answer: no Question: Have you unplugged the fan and Transmission Range sensor and retested? Answer: no Question: Are the modules at the latest calibration? Answer: no Tech's question: May I have some assistance in getting this vehicle programmed, please? Hotline response: Greg, There have been isolated concerns with the FSA 10B17 causing programming concerns, and to help identify what may have happened or what the next step in repairs will be more information will be needed. With the IDS installed and communicating with the vehicle, open the Tech. Log Viewer and obtain the PCM and TCM Filename#, Hardware# and Part Number. Then obtain the NOX Module and GPCM Part Number. Perform a self test and identify if there are any DTCs set then obtain the IDS level. Once this information has been obtained, please update this form with your findings. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional Diag/Comments Comment from: technician Comment Date: 9/21/2010 12:23:11 PM All prefixes are BC3A PCM f/n 14C204-DEA, h/l 12B684-JA, p/n 12A650-BVG TCM f/n 14C337-CH, h/l 14F106-CE, p/n 12B565-CE NOX p/n 5K202-BC GPCM p/n 12B553 (no suffix) DTCs: P161A, P1639, P268C/D/E/F, P2690/1/2/3 IDS level: 68.09 Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 9/21/2010 1:10:26 PM Greg, Thank you for the update. At this point it will be necessary to replace the PCM and open a new session. In the new session, perform a PMI with the new module already installed. When instructed to replace the module, simply wait a few seconds and proceed with the tick and other prompts as if this was done. After all programming is completed, perform the PATS parameter reset to perform the handshake between the IC and PCM. Since this concern occurred while performing an FSA, it will be necessary to inform the Special Services Support Center (SSSC) at 1-800-325-5621. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Description of vehicle concern: During reprogramming under 10B17, this vehicles engine would not start. After a previous hotline contact, and attempting to recover the PCM, it was decided that this vehicle required a replacement PCM. I have installed the new PCM, performed PMI on it, and went to the PATS menu to reset parameters. I am still retrieving DTC P161A and the engine will not crank. The message "starting system fault" is also displayed in the instrument cluster. Diagnostics performed: Replace pcm, perform PMI, retrieve DTCs, parameter reset several times. DTC Codes: P161a Parts replaced: PCM Question: Have you checked powers and grounds to the PCM and FICM? Answer: no Question: Have you unplugged the fan and Transmission Range sensor and retested? Answer: no Question: Are the modules at the latest calibration? Answer: yes Tech's question: Why wont P161A clear, and why doesnt parameter reset work properly? Hotline response: Greg, The Parameter Reset concern is due to the interaction between the IDS, the new PCM and the original BCM. At this time it is recommended to replace the BCM to repair this vehicle. Follow the BCM Removal and Installation procedure outlined in WSM section 419-01 then retest for a normal start/run. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional Diag/Comments Comment from: technician Comment Date: 9/27/2010 9:34:16 PM I will order a BCM tomorrow. Should I seek additional approval from the Special Service Support Center, as this ongoing concern was originally related to the recall? Also, could you go into more detail regarding this failed interaction between the PCM, BCM and IDS? Will this be remedied in a future IDS release, or is this a programming fault in the BCM? Could the current condition have been predicted prior to ordering and installing the PCM? Thanks. Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 9/28/2010 7:12:30 AM Greg, yes you will need to contact the Special Service Support Center to make sure this is documented and approval is given. Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hotline sent me a survey. I tore them up on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpurvis Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 have heard of this from several scources, have heard many claims of hotline saying stop doing them but i have done many with no problems and have never seen any notices through ford. hope luck stay's with me. i did hear one source had started a session with engine running and was told this is what caused it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikill Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 This engine is starting to sound more and more like the 6.4 with the oil leaks, ticking noise and now dead trucks because of a recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Shhhhhhhhhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 This issue occurred to me last week. Error when re-programming and could not gain access after that, had to end up replacing pcm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech03 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I don't kmnow if this helps or not, we had a 2011 F450 gas motor come with the same code, I tried the parameter rest as well and was unable to restart the vehicle. I went and erased all known keys then reprogrammed the keys and was able to restart the vehicle....perhaps it is a bug in the IDS/PATS side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Y'know.... this is a little reminiscent of the early 6.4s. We had several that the TCMs expired on while reprogramming. They'd erase OK from the seem of it but then they'd get more stupid than they were supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Quote: We had several that the TCMs expired I don't think the location of the TCM helped out with any issues either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hey!!!! If you were a delicate electronic module, you would LOVE to live in that location.... You should see what they look like wrapped in muskeg. Hmmmm, you should smell what they smell like wrapped in muskeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Brad, That was a awesome pic!!!! One question though....Did that come from Rex's truck? We all know how he felt about Ford trucks after he beat/killed the one he stole from his customer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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