Brad Clayton Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Aftermarket warranty companies are a strange entity. I know they are there to make money, but the whole numbers game just makes me shake my head. It’s a big gamble warranting a product you didn’t build, have a say so in design or input on vendor choice. I know they make a ton of money because the payout over the life of the vehicle is usually never equal to or greater than the amount the customer paid for the contract. Then the 6.0l came along and would surely bring the fat cats down off the top of the hill where they count their millions. Did you know that most of the company’s we deal with don’t pay any diagnosis. So the customer has to pick up that portion of the bill. I doubt they are ever told this while in the finance office writing out a check. Now they are faced with a vehicle that has a high pattern failure rate. What’s the solution? Start shuffling those numbers around and rewrite some small print in the policy’s. I actually have no idea what these guys are up to, to be honest with you. I do know if we put in a call for head gasket issues, we can’t say anything about head bolts and stretch or anything of that nature. It seems gaskets are covered but fasteners are not. I was asked if a head gasket was breached. Let me see….a multi layer steel gasket…umm, SURE it’s “breached”. Just some ramblings of a really bored auto mechanic, 'scuse me technician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I've long lost patience when it comes to dealing with vehicles that have aftermarket warranties. What you also failed to mention is that most of these warranty companies will only allow certain "shops" (read: CHEAP) perform covered repairs using parts from vendors of their choice (read: CHEAP no-name brand stuff made in China). Dealerships are usually not allowed to do the repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I ran an aftermarket shop for 25 years and have memories of both sides, some warranty companies/adjusters were a dream to deal with, some adjusters I physically threw out of the shop. I'd have to think the 6.0 (which I never did any aftermarket warranty work on) would have stressed those companies to the breaking point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 My favorite non OEM warranty experience is when they send you the parts and they are USED parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Aftermarket warranties... There is one <best> way to deal with them and many terrible ways to deal with them. Back in my entrepreneur days, when someone presented me with their aftermarket warranty paperwork, I would gently.... or not so gently, hand it back to them. The aftermarket warranty agreement was between them (the customer) and the company. I refused to become the middleman in a pissing contest. Bad enough that Ford is trying to tell me what I can and cannot replace... why would I let a disinterested party dictate this shit to me? I don't mind insurance work.... With insurance work, I make a bid and it is either accepted or denied.... but at least I am comfortable with my estimate. If someone else underbids me... the laws of the jungle apply... Their low bid may gain them a job..... or their low bid may becaome their worst nightmare. With an aftermarket warranty, the warranty company is in the catbird seat.... or so they think. They will try and manipulate the repair so that their exposure and costs are low.... you, on the other hand, will get thrown under the bus in a heartbeat. Sidebar..... good judgement comes from experience..... sadly, experience comes from bad judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 My favorite non OEM warranty experience is when they send you the parts and they are USED parts. Another way of describing some used parts........ "known good". Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 when someone presented me with their aftermarket warranty paperwork, I would gently.... or not so gently, hand it back to them. Nah, nah, nah, never turn away a paying customer, just add 30% to the quote for warranty administration and see what the warranty Nazis say. To my surprise, many of them paid it with no complaints. Remember who is boss- the shop owner, not the warranty administrator. It's not like FMC where you are the slave and they are the King, and must do as Hizzoner says. It kind of reminds me of how it should be..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 While your experiences with aftermarket warranty companies may have been pleasant... mine have not. Unlike you, I have turned away "paying" customers.... "How much to do <this>?". "About $150". "But the man down the street will do it for $95". "Fine... make sure he uses good quality parts and that he performs a safe, reliable repair and has a fair warranty period". "You do not understand". "Understand what?". "I want you to do the repair". "I want $150". I have complete control over the repair process.... I'm not about to become a prostitute to get the job. Nor am I about to relinquish control of that process to someone more concerned with his costs than my reputation. The topic of "customized" labour charges appears to be becoming a popular discussion on many forums... Curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I think the main concern here is...... And you may quote me on this...... " A fair job for a fair price " We all do a job that is worth our time and efforts and should be paid for it. If we all deal with FOMOCO and the A/M warranty companies, why should we be regulated by them and lose our ASSES. I might not compare to you guys on this but... I'm expected to give away my turbos,injectors,pumps,blades and clutches.....I DON'T THINK SO ALEX.........I'm here to make my bosses money and keep my nice comfortable job........I had the owner come out and ask me why I got a certain amount for a custom fan blade. I responded with the regular answer and he went away.....Fair price for a fair job.....Experience pays and the customer always calls back and thanks you......MY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 A fair job for a fair price... no doubts there. Enough to pay staff a good wage... enough to hedge against inflation... enough to cover the inevitable capital acquisitions (tools, manuals.. name it... enough to cover intangibles (training courses, etc)... enough to cover business costs (mortgage, insurance, employer contributions to government programs, workers compo, holiday pay - in Canada, paying a tech $30 per hour would have his "real" cost at around $50 per hour). I'm not disputing fair job = fair pay. I do not like to "lose control" of a repair process. To put my rep into someone elses hands blindly. Part of the aftermarket warranty process is for the customer to sign a "release" (in Canada, anyway). This release is a statement that the vehicle has been repaired to the customers satisfaction and absolves the warranty provider from any further "exposure". So... If I let a warranty wiener dictate what I may and may not address in my repair efforts, I am exposing myself to any possible problems in the future. The warranty provider will wave the release in my face and tell me I should do better work with better parts... I don't think that the world will look like such a pretty place if I'm lying under the bus looking out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 A fair job for a fair price... no doubts there. I'm not disputing fair job = fair pay. I do not like to "lose control" of a repair process. The warranty provider will wave the release in my face and tell me I should do better work with better parts... I don't think that the world will look like such a pretty place if I'm lying under the bus looking out.... Jim, I already know the answer to this one but will be a good topic on it's own..... If your a Indy and dealing with the A/M warranty provider do you or don't you have the CHOICE of repairing said vehicle or not???? It would be your choice whether to repair it or not. Would it? If it is our choice why would we not choose to repair it correctly??? I understand insurance deals are considered cash deals but would it not be up to our front counter guys to push our jobs thru?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: Jim Warman A fair job for a fair price... no doubts there.I'm not disputing fair job = fair pay. I do not like to "lose control" of a repair process. The warranty provider will wave the release in my face and tell me I should do better work with better parts... I don't think that the world will look like such a pretty place if I'm lying under the bus looking out.... Jim, I already know the answer to this one but will be a good topic on it's own..... If your a Indy and dealing with the A/M warranty provider do you or don't you have the CHOICE of repairing said vehicle or not???? It would be your choice whether to repair it or not. Would it? If it is our choice why would we not choose to repair it correctly??? I understand insurance deals are considered cash deals but would it not be up to our front counter guys to push our jobs thru?????? Too often, I lose a little control and answer as if I was the guy steering the boat rather just another oarsman.... Any shop has the ability to tell an A/M warranty provider where and when the bus is going to stop. But Bruce had admonished me for suggesting that we turn away work. Back when I was the shop owner, I had instances where a warranty provider tried to manipulate my estimate to suit his profit margin. At this point I would give the customer the option of paying for the repair and collecting from his carrier or visiting a shop that might be "friendlier". Now that I am not the shop owner, I make a quote based on my knowledge and comfort level... Not a warranty concern, I recently quoted a turbo to pan engine based on overfull crankcase, interesting stuff stuck to drain plug, 212,000 kms and 8725 engine hours - I did not do a whole bunch of diag. 8725 engine hours..... If I am told that warranty wont pay for <something>, do I roll over and say "yeah, we don't need that"? If we don't need it, why did I quote for it? For the front counter guy part... I assume that they are paid a commission or bonus? I have enough "trouble" with extended warranty... let alone aftermarket wagering... whoops, I meant warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I just did a seized brake caliper on an 06 f-350, that had a premium global warrantee. To my surprise they covered 2 calipers ( a set, really? wow), but would not cover the fluid, or the copper washers for the line. So by their logic, I leave it with a leaking line and no fluid in the reservoir? (I guess it wouldnt leak then ?). The customer gladly paid for the items, but the warrantee companies logic (read as: bullshit) baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 When it comes to A/M warranties i have more than enough horror stories to share. As someone mentioned on page 1 the 6.0 really knocked them down a notch. about 1 in 100 diesels that come through my shop will have an A/M warranty. and when they do, I LOVE IT! They try to haggle and wheel and deal and cut you to the bone by trying to manipulate the labor guides or saying we're not paying you that amount because there is no labor op for what you want to do. i.e. stuck bolt, not paying for fluid, not paying for copper washers. when i run into situations like that and i can't find a way around it, which is not very often, i always have the name and number of the rep that denied payment on said parts so that when the customer comes in to pickup their vehicle and the bill is more than their $100 deductible i calmly and HAPPILY get their A/M company on the phone and let them back pedal. To date, i've only had 2 companies that would not back down. So in the end we discounted the fluids to cost to help the customer out. The best one to date though was on a truck that had the compass and temp in the mirror. the module went out and the display no longer worked. i call the claim in to this A/M company and they denied it IMMEDIATELY on the grounds that they don't cover glass! the glass was fine. it was the electronics which it says on their pamphlet and in the contract. Turned out, the customer was an attorney. not sure what all went on or what was said, but he got his mirror fixed, and they paid for us to do a 60K! Never assume your customer isn't prepared or equipped to protect his/her investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Here's a question regarding aftermarket warranties and how they're worded Customer has 2002 F53 Motorhome 6.8 V10. Feels vibration on way back from Florida. We check, find parking brake assembly on back of trans has failed. Fluid leaking out of drum. Disassembly reveales forward bearing has blown, sending debris into trans. In customer's warranty paperwork it covers ALL internally lubricated transmission components. This thing won't move without parking brake assembly on back of trans. And it has its own internal lube. They denied coverage and coverage for trans should it fail from contamination. Collateral damage isn't covered. However, if it were 4wd, they'd cover the xfer case and trans should it fail, which bolts on in the exact same manner as the parking brake assembly. He's written letters now and gotten his lawyer involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Quit using terms like contamination and tell them that the friggin transmission brake failed and destroyed the whole transmission. Do they really know what the hell you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Apparently the guy at the warranty company does know. He worked at a Ford store for 25 years prior to becoming a cubicle dweller. He knew where it is, and what it does, and that the rig is unusable without it. But the way the contract is written, they won't cover it. We don't call, the customer who owns the rig does, only after they were arseholes to him, did my boss speak to a stupidvisor. Either way, the customer is going through their written appeal process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGMEC Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I had an afetrmarket warranty company tell me on a 6.0l head job the customer had paid $3000 for his afetrmarket warranty so the most he could ever claim was $3000 and that was all they paid he paid the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Ah, so they offer a savings account that doesn't bear interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 here's one for you guys. Super nice gentleman comes in, has a few lil issues here and there the first time around. Aftermarket warranty pays, no issues. 2nd time around, CEL is on. don't remember specific code, but it was an emissions code, and tech verified internal PCM circuit failure. it gets fun after this point. I call it in, the guy acts like a know-it-all, spouting off shit that had nothing with anything but the price of tea in china, then denies the claim because emissions coverage isnt part of the contract. at the same time he was having issues with the compass in the mirror. claim also denied. glass isnt covered. i'll buy not covering glass. But glass is not the issue. the electronics in the mirror and mirror base are! Needless to say, that company's warranty will never be honored by me at any dealership i will ever work at. Customer filed appeal, got claim including rental paid, and full refund on warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Good for him. I recall hearing my writer say emissions repairs not being covered by some of these warranty companys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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