Bruce Amacker Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 '06 F-model, died on the road "like you turned the key off" states the driver. No oil pressure, won't fill the filter housing. Tech pulls the LPOP to find this picture, and replaced the oil pump. New pump won't prime, still won't fill the filter even with the pan overfilled and jacked up. 1. What do you think went through this pump? 2. Is it related to the oil pressure problem? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Is that the only mark on the pump? I've never seen those "triangle" like shapes before...doesn't look like the steel c-clip from an exploded stc fitting. Curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I read this earlier today and I have been thinking about the shape of that impression too. It is very clear and distinct. Triangle. The only debris I have experience with is needle bearings from cam followers. Common debris would be injector clips and broken torx bits. Did the tech disassemble the pressure regulator and inspect for debris? Perhaps that triangle is holding the regulator open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Quote: New pump won't prime Were the gears "packed" during installation to aid in priming? Or were they assembled "dry"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Quote: 1. What do you think went through this pump?God only knows. Would need a pretty thorough tear down to see any damaged parts, I would think. 2. Is it related to the oil pressure problem?I would think this thing should get oil at least to the filter housing, no? I mean it's a straight shot out of the pump to the oil cooler/filter base. That is provided the pick up tube isn't completely clogged with something and the regulator isn't fubared, with a 75 psi spring, I doubt it though. I had a U-haul van with a 7.3 that did the same thing, basically. Ended being a pickup tube full of paper. evidently some disgruntled employee thought he would get revenge on the company by stuffing the oil pan with paper on it's last oil change. I guess he wasn't aware that the engine just shuts off with lack of oil instead of grenading. That was a fun one to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 What does the housing/front cover look like? Is anyone missing a Torx bit? I like to live by the motto "Leave no tool behind!" but I have seen Torx bits in the bottom of oil pans and heard tales or Torx bits left behind in the bowels of a 6.0L without any damage being done. Now if a Torx bit were to break, then pieces could end up going through the screen and cause this damage. That's what I would suspect. Otherwise, a Torx bit that isn’t broken won’t fit through the oil pump pick-up screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 I forgot to mention the tech did replace the regulator while doing the repair. I asked if the regulator bore was scored and if the spool slid smoothly with no response. This info is from the shop owner, but not the tech directly. I'm still somewhat baffled why the pump won't prime. Even if he installed it dry, with the pan overfilled, ass end jacked up and filter out, it "should" prime.... Has anyone seen a pickup tube break on a 6.0 like 7.3s did? It might be getting the pan pulled next, but I was thinking about applying some kind of vacuum up top while cranking to help it prime.... Thanks for the input, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you aren't paying attention, the pick up can cock sideways and feel tight - and later on come back to haunt you....DAMHIKT! Why not dump an extra gallon of oil into it to see if that helps it prime - not that the lower pan is all that hard to drop down for a peek at the pick up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Possibly similar story? A local shop replaced the low pressure pump because of scoring and no base oil pressure. They were able to achieve base pressure but said they could never get the pump to prime. They had an oil pressure gauge in the ICP port ('06 engine). I put shop air to the high pressure oil system and the STC fitting was blown out. What damaged the low pressure/high pressure pump was the steel c-clip from inside the STC fitting. I replaced the STC fitting but unfortunately had to replace the high pressure pump as well. Any idea what base oil pressure is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you aren't paying attention, the pick up can cock sideways and feel tight - and later on come back to haunt you....DAMHIKT! I'm not sure what you're referring to here- the pickup is not touched during an oil pump R&R. Why not dump an extra gallon of oil into it to see if that helps it prime - not that the lower pan is all that hard to drop down for a peek at the pick up. He did that, as well as jacking up the back of the truck to see if it would help the primning situation. Thanks for responding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Possibly similar story? A local shop replaced the low pressure pump because of scoring and no base oil pressure. They were able to achieve base pressure but said they could never get the pump to prime. You must be referring to the HPOP, not the LPOP. They had an oil pressure gauge in the ICP port ('06 engine). I put shop air to the high pressure oil system and the STC fitting was blown out. What damaged the low pressure/high pressure pump was the steel c-clip from inside the STC fitting. I replaced the STC fitting but unfortunately had to replace the high pressure pump as well. Any idea what base oil pressure is? There is zero base oil pressure, because the LPOP will not prime. It will not fill the oil filter housing. I think this is a different set of circumstances from your truck... Thanks for responding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I would drop the pan and see if anything is blocking the pickup or even if the pickup was there. Borescope in through the drain plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 i am thinking the ball from the hpop is missing causing your no oil pressure problem the witness marks in the lpop are not enought to cause a problem or so i am aware of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I remember this as an '06 so the ball doesn't apply, plus if the ball were missing ('03-4) it would still fill the filter housing. I agree the witness marks are not enough to stop the LPOP from working, but I was alluding to the fact that those pieces might give a hint to the "real" problem. Thanks for responding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I was alluding to the fact that those pieces might give a hint to the "real" problem. I was thinking that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 The problem is circled on the front of the grille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 The tech has reported the upper and lower pans are off with no problems found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Okay, I'm a little confused here. The picture in the first post. Is that of the old pump, or the new one installed and disassembled again? Second, was it just the gear and rotor replaced or the entire front cover with new gear and rotor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 The pump was only replaced once, with the original gear pictured. The front cover was not replaced. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 If those pans are still off and the crankshaft is turned then the pump is turning and it damn well better be pulling a suction on the passage going into the front cover, no? If not it's time to pull those gears back out and have a look see and then "pack" 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I would be pulling the pump out and reinspecting the covers for a score. O-ring on the pick up tube is good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Any update on this issue? I am very curious myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 The latest report is the upper and lower oil pans are off, the pickup tube is intact, the o-rings between the pickup tube and the upper pan and upper pan and block all look fine. The tech and shop owner are not happy campers at this point. I suggested rechecking the pump and perhaps pulling a vacuum up top while cranking to help it prime. The shop owner stated he had already tried that but had a DSA (Dumb Shit Attack) and forgot to crank it while the vacuum was applied. I don't know what their next step will be but I will keep you all informed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 i would like to know what the cover looks like 9 times out of 10 when u have grotor damage to cover is damaged also i have replaced many and all recieved covers i looked at the oil flow the nextplace to go is the oil cooler after the g rotor unless the regulator is stuck open causing it to dump back to the pan if not could be plugged oil cooler how many miles on this unit to note i have also assembled all of them lubed not dry i have never had to prime or pull suction on one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Latest update: The tech removed the pan, checked the pickup tube, all was fine, and reinstalled them. He then removed the oil pump again to check it, reinstalled it and the truck primed immediately and went out the door. It's been fine since then except for an unrelated EGR code. The tech claims he primed the pump with Lubriplate both times it was out. Why it would not prime the first time but primed immediately the second time is a mystery. The triangular pieces that damaged the original pump appear similar to plastic injector retainers that were broken off the injector pass-through clips through the rocker boxes. (?) There were a few of them laying in the oil pan when it was pulled. Would plastic indent the Gerotor gears like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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