Keith Browning Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Given the fact that performing modifications to diesel vehicles seems to have become rampant, do you think that inspecting on-road diesel vehicles should include RIGID inspections for tampering and elimination of emissions equipment with heavy fines for those who are caught? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 All diesels are now being smogged in California, tampered with = fail = can't register - everyone's 'returning' their vehicles to stock emissions long enough to get them smogged, and then putting the ILLEGAL crap back on them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Jeez, Kieth... why not just set out a beaker of Gibsons Finest and call "Heeeeere Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy"... A daily driver is a daily driver... In the US it should conform to FMVSS regulations. In Canada, it should conform to CMVSS criteria. (looking at the BBAS website, we see many references to both legislations regarding modificatioons). DUH!!!! is, I believe, an operative term. Emissions controls, for the most part, don't play into either CMVSS or FMVSS unless the placement or design of some components might impact the safety of the vehicle. We had to get that out of the way. I don't live in the US and I can't speak for how any requirements affect what states... I can't speak for any requirements that have federal affects... Shit... I even have trouble defining Canadas requirements conclusively. Especially Alberta... There isn't one politician out there that doesn't have at least some fear that standing firmly behind clean air legislation may be political suicide. You have asked a question that is far too simple for the situation at hand. As a professional, it should be my duty (perhaps even my ability) to report anomalies and remove the offenders from the road. Sadly, we have time and again proven that we are NOT professional... We see that you or I can call something unsafe and the hack down the road will call it "good to go". Here in Alberta, I perform many different mandated inspections. There are references to the check engine light in some (but not all) insection criteria. Where there is a reference, they call attention to safety issues rather than emissions compliance issues. Vehicles registered in the Republic (sorry.. province) of Alberta that are over 10 years old are, at the request of the insurance carrier, subject to a safety inspection . The government of Alberta has standardized the form. One of the questions is "Has this vehicle been altered for speed or performance?". Amazingly, some techs will look at the programmer and tick off "NO" - DUH!!!! Trying to get back to the intent of your question... You nor I cannot step outside of our mandate... Unless we are tasked with emissions testing, we are pretty much phuqued. We can suggest to Ford that a particular failure may have it's roots in a modification... but you can bet your daughters college fund that Ford is looking to you for that unequivacol truth. They wont stick their neck out... if someone is going to fry - it will be you. It is up to the government... A visual inspection first with any and all installed accessories or equipment being Approved by CARB and/or EPA.... Follow that with a scan... there should be no P1000 (indicating that all monitors have cleared) and there should be no DTCs... CMDTC, ODDTC or pending DTC. Remember that I said any installed accessory should be approved... If you have a diesel truck that can "roll the coal", I would suggest that it has something that "isn't approved". You and I have no real position in deciding what is right and what is wrong. We can tell a customer that installing a <whatever> is in contravention of existing legislation. If we don't install it... we get that warm and fuzzy feeling from having done the "right thing". Down the street, you will find a prostitute... he will do anything for a buck. He will install anything and everything... he will keep his mouth shut as far as legality is concerned. He will get rich by not thinking about what is right and what is wrong. Life ain't simple.. and it sure ain't fair.... FWIW... there is always that portion of the populace that will continue to push at an envelope until legislation adopts a "zero tolerance" stance. Loud exhaust, bumper heights, tires that protrude beyond wheel openings... If I still smoked, I wouldn't be able to smoke in a public building... I wouldn't be able to smoke nears it's doors and I might not be able to smoke on their property... One bad apple can spoil the whole barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 the percentage of people modifying trucks vs the amount of trucks out there has to be nearly insignificant. in PA a visual inspection of emissions components is required for state safety inspection but honestly no one reviews with us what the emissions components look like on different light duty diesel trucks. i couldn't tell you what a cummins or duramax has as far as emissions goes(i guess it's my job to do independent research on the subject). same goes for guys who don't do powerstrokes. yeah the egr is there but did your inspector notice the cooler was gone, doubt it? no one seems to care around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Matt, same deal out at this end of PA. We were told that in an Emissions tested county, diesel's are flat out exempt no matter what. Now a diesel that comes in from a non Emissions county must go through a visual emissions inspection as part of the yearly safety inspection. Dumb, I know. So lets say that you have an '05 with an EGR delete and you live in a county that requires emissions testing, the truck passes no problem. You move one county over to one that doesnt require emissions testing, now that same EGR delete makes your truck technically illegal for state safety inspection. This exact scenario was brought up at our last emissions/safety inspection meeting and the presenter agreed that it was dumb, but so far nothing has been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Dodson Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'd be a hypocrite if I said people should be fined for removing emissions equipment...my 08 mustang is getting long tube headers with an "off road" H-pipe and lopey cams that are sure to send some unburnt fuel out the exhaust I know Jim will like that haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think we need to be a little careful when we start confusing "unenforced" with "condoned". I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on EPA regs - but it appears to this outsider thatthe EPA has set minimum requirements and that it is up to each region to police those requirements as they see fit. Obviously, if an area has only one motor vehicle per square mile, a one percent non-compliancy rate isn't going to be a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Increase the environmental load (i.e. - increase the vehicle population) and things can change). I might also challenge any statement that any diesel is exempt - Think about it... the 6.7 is a $10,000 option in Canada (not sure what it is in the US) mostly due to the cost of emissions compliance. If diesel engines are "exempt" from emissions compliance, why are manufacturers bound into selling "clean" diesels? If diesels are exempt from compliance, why did we bother with the switch to ULSD? Take a look at the number of power adders and other accessories that clearly bear a variation on "the product may NOT be legally used on public highways, streets, or other roads and may NOT be used for purposes other than off-road, legal racing/competitions uses". Alberta has a distinct lack of any legislation for the most part. Now.. before you jump all over that... Defeating any emissions control is strictly against the legislation. However, there is currently no specified penalty for contravening the legislation. As far as how any of us looks at modifications ( I have modified many vehicles.... none of them are daily driver )... we can retain our professionalism or we can squander it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 When I started this topic I was curious as to where it might go. As usually not too many members express an opinion. For the sake of the topic, it is not about the owner or the trucks themselves really. It is about regulations and the lack of follow through that doesn't seem to support the clean air laws. The tuner manufacturer for example prints a warning and a disclaimer on the box and in the user manual. Their job is done. After all they cant police what vehicle their products are installed in and well, it's not their law. Here in NJ we have private and state run motor vehicle inspections. The private garages in theory can let just about anything go, especially if it's a buddy's truck. I have seen private use diesel trucks run through the state inspections as I waited in line with my trusty old Explorer... They check the lights, the horn, the wipers and make sure the tires aren't wider than the fenders. They will fail you if you don't install fender flares to cover that 1/4" of tread that extends beyond the fender. Finally the brakes get slammed over an antiquated brake balance tester... if the truck is short enough. Then a sticker goes on. In contrast, my gas Explorer gets a tailpipe sniffer, and under body scan with a floor mounted camera, the fuel neck is checked for tampering, it then gets a computer scan to check for DTC's and that the Check Engine light is not illuminated, a dynomometer emissions check and then the gas cap is tested. All along with the lights, horn brakes and suspension. See the contrast? Why have regulations if you are not going to enforce them. And "everybody" seems to have a knot in their knickers over diesel emissions? They all make a good speech... and then turn a blind eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Alberta is getting tough on inspection techs that get caught not playing by the rules... emphasis on "get caught". The CEL can be on but it can't be because of anything that will affect the SAFETY of the car. If it affects safety - I can reject it. If it doesn't - well, there is no specified penalty for that sort of non-compliance. Taken a step further... "There is no requirement to maintain tire pressure monitoring systems" - in spite of the fact that one can see grossly underinflated tires everywhere, every day. Inappropriate load range tires or inappropriate valve stems? I can only note these on the RO and on the record of inspection... there is no specified penalty... there is no "reject". Something I recently discovered... "There is no requirement to maintain the catalytic converter(s)". At one time Alberta Infrastructure told me I could not remove a catalytic converter. And here they have a regulation that infers that "somebody" is allowed to remove the catalytic converter... FWIW, these references are all from the Out of Province inspection criteria for the Province of Alberta. The hypocrisy and cavalier attitudes that so many seem to embrace are frustrating and maddening. If we can't take some of this stuff seriously, how will we expect anyone else to take us seriously? Fucking thieving greasemonkeys is something we shall remain used to being called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.