Keith Browning Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I got myself involved in a discussion at the Monkey House concerning ULSD and rubber parts in older Ford/International diesels. My impression is that: [*]it has not been an issue from what I have seen - tough I don't see many older trucks now [*]rubber parts for older trucks manufactured in recent years would be ULSD compatible So I am just curious if you guys have seen or read of any ULSD comparability issues with the older Power Stroke and IDI engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 IH released improved rubber "fuel sleeves" (those rubber compression fitting o-rings) for ULSD. Updated Fuel Sleeves for Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel TSI Number: 07-12-06 TSI Date: March 2007 1878937C91 I saw a rash of 7.3 water drain problems (leaking o-rings) in 2006-7 when ULSD came out. My customer in Granada uses 5000PPM sulphur fuel (very high) and have not had an injector failure in their fleet in 10 years! I strongly recommend a lubricity enhancer like Stanadyne Performance Formula in all diesel powered vehicles. You should hear some of the first hand stories my students tell about using Stanadyne and its better fuel economy, easier starting, better running and lack of component failures. I have a few that buy it in 55 gallon drums (one student this week says he gets it for $1300, which is pretty cheap, under $3 pint).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 yeah i too have seen a few water drain failures on 7.3s but never really thought of the root cause. very interesting good point about the stanadyne too. i've been running it religiously in my truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 I remember 7.3L water drain valve problems long before ULSD now that I think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 We had/still see a lot of the fuel line sleeves that deteriorate from the use of the ulsd on the International side. Appeared to have an increase in DT injector failures for about 6 mos. after the switch over. Whether the lack of lubricity in the fuel just finished them off quicker or just the luck of the draw; I don't know. I too am a firm believer in the additive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Ever since I got the internet in my house, I find myself getting older much faster than I used to.... Think about it this way... Before ULSD fuel, the rubber parts in a 7.3 fuel system were only a little bit old. Then they brought out ULSD fuel and these same parts got older...and SOME of them even started to leak. Without a "control" group, I find it hard to blame the fuel. This knee-jerk reaction is hardly scientific and certainly not worthy of any manner of professional verification without substantive proof. By professional, I mean you and me, boys and girls. We have no business being in the practice of unsubstantiated assumptions. At this point in time, most 7.3 PSDs are approaching 10 years of age. I would suggest that having 10 year old rubber goods fail for no other reason than old fucking age isn't much of a stretch of the imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 NEVER take off on a cross country trip in a vehicle with 20+ year old radiator hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Why? They aint gots no hoses accross the country? Ahhhyuk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Without a "control" group, The control group is my customer in Grenada using 5000ppm sulfur fuel with zero injector and fuel system failures over the last decade. It might even be longer than that, but they can't remember. As for 7.3s, the majority I see are over 10 years. I wonder if production numbers declined in the later years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well I certainly could have gone for a broader or older demographic... but the last of the 7.3s you will to see in a Ford pickup or van would be approaching 10 years of age... We can mince words all you want... As for Grenada being a control group... yes, I can see where the climate in Grenada mirrors the climate in Slave Lake... I may be mistaken but a "control group" is that group which experiences identical conditions as the target group except for the ONE thing we are trying to measure. And one thing you have negelected... "zero fuel system failures YET". FWIW, I have seen a LOT of right side fuel lines rub through on the clamp that holds the line to the cylinder head at the back of the air box. We aren't going to suggest that these are from ULSD fuel, are we.... (Kieth, "air box" is a term I picked up from Detroit Diesel two strokes - intake manifold doesn't seem like an adequate term... hence....) Shit happens... and then we move on. Old parts wear out... old rubber becomes brittle.... (Maybe we should start dumping a couple of quarts of type F in the fuel tank like Grandad did?) FWIW... if ULSD WAS the reason for these O-ring failures.... and all of these O-rings are made from the same kind of rubber - would we not expect ALL of the O-rings to fail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 As for Grenada being a control group... yes, I can see where the climate in Grenada mirrors the climate in Slave Lake... I may be mistaken but a "control group" is that group which experiences identical conditions as the target group except for the ONE thing we are trying to measure. And one thing you have negelected... "zero fuel system failures YET". Well, you're correct there about the control group weather thing but I have a valid point. I have customers through the Caribbean and most of them have shitty fuel and horrible fuel system failures at unbelievably low miles/hours. If you put the high sulfur fuel into the equation and the fuel system failures go away, there has to be a connection. You seem to be in a pissy mood today, did the liquor store close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 What I am saying.. if you want to call something a control group... it has to be a CONTROL group... pissy mood aside, scientific evaluation must be done scientifically if it is to mean something. Your control group would be nothing better than "anecdotal". I've seen O-ring failures before the advent of ULSD fuel... after the introduction of this fuel, the incidence of O-ring failures seemed to increase... Was this because of the age of the O-rings... or because of the fuel? I have absolutely nothing that will sway the proof one way or the other. Without proof, the best thing I can say will be prefaced with "I think....". For your consideration... using the internet, I see that the coldest it "usually" gets in Grenada is over 75F. One would expect that the coolant temp in a properly functioning system shouldn't exceed 240F in this locale... A 165F difference. In Slave Lake, we have at least a few days every year of -40F and, in the hottest days, towing a trailer, one might expect to see coolant temps on the order of 220F (our hottest days resemble Grenadas coolest days..) a range of 260F. This extra 100 degrees is more than likely going to have some kind of affect on many underhood items. Cast aspersions on me all you want (I'm a "ginger" too, wanna use that?) citing Grenada as a control group is flawed thinking... Bottom line.. you have no proof that ULSD is the cause of these failures. I have no proof that it isn't. DUHHH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 My biggest question about the Water Drain valve leaks is..... When does this happen???? I have seen the majority of the failures happening after the weather changes and we see a large amount of leaks when the temps drop below 30F.... I have had several of the valves come into my counter cracked..... Water freezes, expands and cracks..... Leaks happen.... I keep 3-4 of these valves on hand all the time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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