Matt Saunoras Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 how are you guys handling metal in the oil? we're talking fairly large particles atleast 1mm wide visibly stuck in the filter and the oil clearly has flecks all through it. drain plug all fuzzed up. over 100k miles on the clock is this ground for automatic shortblock, pumps and injector replacement? Backstory. this truck has had all 8 injectors replaced in the last 2 years and has been to 3 different dealerships for different shit. visually i can see it already had headstuds installed. other than that i don't know exactly whats been done. it comes in a month or 2 ago and gets all the injectors done on the right bank. cust states they were done a little over a year ago so they are no longer under parts warranty. he provides reciepts showing the left bank was done under a year ago. Comes in for a no start, contribution codes for 4, 6 and a P0304. SYNC, FICM SYNC, M_pwr, ICP, IPR etc all okay. relative compression showing in yellow(can't remember %) for #4 and #8 is down 7-8%. advise cust that engine replacement is recommended at this point but for whatever reason i am authorized to pull the left head for inspection. pull head and nothing really sticks out. luckily found #4 intake lifter collapsed, cam lobe looks like it's starting to wipe but is still intact. #8 rings obviously have sealing issues indicated by the carbon tracks going down the cyl wall. nothing found with #6. still recommending engine replacement at this time, even a used one would have suited me fine. now i'm getting questioned as to why it wouldn't start and questioned that shouldn't it start on 6 cyl??? well i don't have the a guaranteed answer but it's likely the injectors are full of metal and not operating correctly. i cannot seem to convince anyone this engine is junk. after all this cust wants it bandaided together. this damn things been weighing on my mind so i went in today and threw a lifter in it, slapped the head on, dropped the cab down and hooked up IDS. still a no start, kinda wants to start but i suspect theres just not enough heat being generated to get it spinning. sprayed a little accelerant down the elbow and it fires and stays running. 2,3,4,6 dead holes. let it run for a minute to get warmed up and re-ran relative. #8 is the only one that's down now. so now what? what are you guys finding for the source of metal in the oil? i'll be honest i didn't go hunting for it, just figured even if i did find it that it would not matter. also, why the hell are service managers so damn hard headed? i have a feeling i'll be doing a few injectors under parts warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 An oil analysis will tell you what the metal is and a hint of where it came from. Napa/Wix PN4077 ($14) will take a week or two, a Cat dealer can frequently get you results within 24 hrs at more money. I think it's a no-brainer, put a motor in it. Remember the IDS compression test is comparing cylinders, so if they're all low from excessive wear it could show all green bars. If you want rock solid evidence do a mechanical compression test. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 it was definitely ferrous, i picked all of it out with a magnet. i skipped the manual compression test due to the circumstances. we all knew it had metal in the oil it seemed like a no brainer to me also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yea, but whether it's steel or iron might give you an idea what's up, along with other pertinent info like chromium, lead, nickel, aluminum, and 30 other contaminants. I think oil sampling is one of the most overlooked items of diag in the LD/MD world. In the HD world it's frequently done at every LOF. In your case it's going to tell you what went wrong, not what's going wrong. You're still gonna put a motor in it, and I wouldn't re-use the heads, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 i knew that a dressed long block would have been the way to go but management definitely fucked with my head by questioning what i was doing. i made the ASSumption that we would be doing an engine once i had the cab up. i think i just needed to make a post to vent a little maybe i will send out an oil anaylsis just out of sheer curiousity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 With metal floating in the oil you could have a train wreck going. A lifter/cam lobe beginning to fail pushing metal through the rest of the system causing accelerated wear on bearings etc. This metal will make its way through the IPR, and high pressure oil system causing hard start no start. IMO the relative compression test can be very misleading. I've had engines that had valves slammed into the pistons that showed the cylinder was good. The broken pieces slowed down the piston speed enough to indicate a good cylinder. Do what Bruce recommended and perform a manual compression test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 put the truck outside today, believe it or not it fired on 4 cyl this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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