good ICP_V screenshot? Having 6.0 problems

Matt Saunoras · July 14, 2011

Do any of you guys have a good screenshot of what ICP_V should look like? I've been having some weird issues with my 06 lately (62,000 miles) and I'm leaning towards an oil pressure problem. It's intermittently stumbling/ fluctuating only at a cold idle. Lately at a cold start it seems to lumber to life, it makes me think that a rail may be draining back. A warm start will always fire all at once like it should.

My ICP_V is very choppy, not sawtoothed like you might see with a hpop concern, but erratic like a high frequency pattern. Occassionally the pattern will flatten out for a half of a second then continue. There has never been a hard start/no start concern, it always fires every time and my koeo is always moving between .23-.24v

I put an new ICP in it but left the original connector because the old sensor was not leaking. Today I ran it up in neutral semi-cold and it just seemed to run like crap around 1500-1800 RPM. It won't flag any misfires(nothing in power balance, mode 6 etc) but it just doesn't run smooth until it gets higher in rpm. I'm going to pull the IPR tomorrow, it has a new screen and o-rings from when I did the high pressure connector 6-7k miles ago. I just changed the oil yesterday too. I have 2 standpipe kits and dummy plugs I'm going to toss in it this weekend. I'm not sure if it could be a check valve in one of the standpipes causing a problem. The PC/ED is kind of vague in determining check valve failure

Any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I did not check fuel pressure yet but I will tomorrow, the truck does have the blue spring in it. It had 66psi when I put the regulator kit in it but that was last winter

cheezit · July 14, 2011

there was a tsb that contained some info on this sometime back iirc it was the original fuel in coolant one. I always thought it was a little out of place. anyway on to the point.

3-4k rpm run up vibration ford claimed was a possible ipr issue. in the 1500 band they stated possible stand pipe.

i would look at the connector for icp and see if you have any really bent wires. if so replace the hardshell.

a few other things you can try is swiching to a 5-40 syn oil or a 10-30 depending oin your local weather.

Also being you are a tech Ill throw this out there and you can use your own judment. take about 2-3 cups of diesel fuel and poor delute the engine oil. drive for about 50/100 miles and change the oil again to remove most of the delution. the fuel acts as a solvent and may reduce spool valve latching.

this is one of those cases were more fuel mixed in wont be better.

also disconnect the gpcm and see if the issue gets worse. if it does suspect latching as a possibel concern. from there plug in the block heater for a few hours and see if the issue is better. if so once again then possible latching issue.

to try to isolate the concern to what injector use the inhanced inject sheet in the pc/ed that uses the pids for masfuel. you know the one we should be using when replacing injectors anyway.

Matt Saunoras · July 14, 2011

Here's a crude(very) drawing thanks to mspaint

truck idling the ICP_V is right where it should be but it looks like this. IPR% was good also

Posted Image

I've been running 5w40syn for 3 oil changes now. The truck doesn't seem to have stiction issues, I can't identify any particular cylinder(s) causing the problem

I had previously wiggled the ICP connector to see if I could get any change out of the reading but nothing happened. One of the main reasons I just let it be

Bruce Amacker · July 14, 2011

Did you search the photo archives? These were already there. I think we determined some hash is normal.

:grin:

Matt Saunoras · July 14, 2011

Yeah I did run across your ICP hash pic. I am going to get a screenshot of mine tomorrow, it looks nothing like that

Matt Saunoras · July 15, 2011

Here is a couple screenshots of my ICP_V

This is a cold start after sitting all day. Notice the voltage reads relatively smooth up until about -1 second

This is what I was referring too with the erratic readings. This is a cold start idle. it's not surging but not entirely smooth either.

This is idling after I did a 3 mile run and the truck was warmed up

I pissed with the icp connector plugging/unplugging it in a few times and my koeo voltage reads a steady .23v now . cheezit funny you mentioned that, my ICP wires are practically stretched from the harness to the connector. they're really pulled tight.

I'll likely never get a screenshot of the truck actually acting up. It's done the idle fluctuation twice in a month now.

edit - the actual links are bigger pics if you click them

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3343/icp2.png

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1897/icp1.png

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/749/icp3.png

cheezit · July 15, 2011

were is the ipr sitting at hot idle. the scary thing here is that the icp maybe correct. also a late my truck will run fine at with a vref issue... pull up ebp and watch that too. see if there both acting the same.

Keith Browning · July 15, 2011

That second image is indicative of a refresh rate/communication problem with your IDS. Used to get a lot of data logger displays with those skips when my IDS computer hasn't had the operating system reinstalled for a long time. It seems like after updating my IDS software 3 or 4 times shit stops working well. I get a lot of Testman errors, skips in data logger like in your screen shot, delays in bi-directional controls ( raising RPMS or controlling the VGT or EGR valve has a delay between my commands and actual output action). I have resided to the fact that once a year I take my dedicated IDS laptop home, wipe the hard drive clean and reinstall the OS and IDS. Everything is beautiful again afterward.

I also swear that there have been IDS or VCM software updates that have had problems and fucked up my laptop. For instance after IDS Ver 70 my wireless VCM became worthless and there have been no updates from Teredine in a while... I recently replaced my laptop battery so wireless is not as big of a deal as it once was.

Posted Image

In other words, I don't think your ICP signal looks all that unusual other than those skips which I don't think is the truck doing that.

Matt Saunoras · July 15, 2011

I can't remember IPR exactly. It is in range though, low 20% area

thanks for the advice so far

Keith, the skips are an IDS issue then, when I run playback on the event the needle jumps over them. Thanks for confirming this.

I am going to play with the truck a little more tommorrow, otherwise really it is running fine. I am a hypocondriac when it comes to this thing. If i can actually verify and repair the occassional fluctuation I will let you guys know what it is

Keith Browning · July 15, 2011

Another thought, while the signal voltage seems hashy it is very consistent and even. A wiring/electrical issue would show errand spikes and typically of varying voltages as well. We have discussed and seen ICP signals where a hydraulic concern existed with a 2003 style pump and the result was a consistent and distinct pattern.

I think that you may be looking at the wrong thing at this point. After looking at the first screen shot of a cold start I don't see any indication of a drain back or ICP problem Pressure builds immediately and the engine fires. You stated this thing runs crummy after a cold start, especially off idle. I am thinking injectors or IDM personally. If you have no IDM or injector circuit codes and your IDM FICM_MPWR PID is above 45 volts you may have internal injector damage causing your performance issues... whether it be stiction or scuffing.

I also think a standpipe check valve issue would be more prominent with a HOT engine, no? That would also be rare in my opinion... as a matter of fact, I have never come across that or heard of it, but that doesn't mean anything.

Just out of curiosity, check the LOAD PID at idle at full operating temperature.

cheezit · July 15, 2011

that was another thought I had about the pump as well. have seen the like on an 03 with a broken pump. but I tend to think this is not the case.

going back to ebp if its a circuit issue it may show the same behavior pattern as the icp.

I have never seen a stand pipe do anymore then leak from an o-ring myself too but the info made it in to a tsb at one time.

second post covers some basic stuff to try for injector testing.

Matt Saunoras · July 15, 2011

will do Keith, thanks for your input. same for you too cheezit

The FICM is farely new, it constantly reads 48.50 or 49.00v

Keith Browning · July 16, 2011

Here is a screenshot of a funky ICP signal that was causing a surge at all RPM ranges as I recall.

Matt Saunoras · July 16, 2011

Standpipes fixed that hash I was having. My ICP variation is less than half of what it was in the old screenshot

Honestly whether it's a viable test or not, the old standpipe check valves were much harder to blow through than the new updated ones I put in (12mm hex as opposed to the original 10mm)

My dummy plugs were just starting to wear out on the bottom o-ring. Changed those too

Keith Browning · July 16, 2011

Standpipes fixed that hash I was having. My ICP variation is less than half of what it was in the old screenshot

Good information! Posted Image

Matt Saunoras · July 16, 2011

I would have changed out the ICP connector too if the damn thing didn't cost $55 at cost +10%. Actually I believe a ficm harness is cheaper than that damn pigtail. I'll have my parts guy call down international and have them get me one.

btw Keith I forgot about checking the load pid until today. Warm idle I am right at 21%

I wish I could find out more information about standpipe concerns. It seems like one of those things that you might not even notice unless you were really looking for a problem. I've put about 30 miles on the truck now and it definitely seems to run smoother (probably in my head)

joshbuys · July 16, 2011

I would have changed out the ICP connector too if the damn thing didn't cost $55 at cost +10%. Actually I believe a ficm harness is cheaper than that damn pigtail. I'll have my parts guy call down international and have them get me one.

Cost +10%?! We have to pay +20% over cost! (I can go to the competing dealer up the road and get parts for cost +10 as that is what they sell them to my dealer at) IIRC napa has that pigtail for less than $20.

Matt Saunoras · July 16, 2011

Yeah, I'm fairly lucky I have it good with my parts guy. Some of his wholesale customers get 10% over so he figures atleast employees should get it. Company policy is 20% though