Jim Warman Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think that this is an indication of the thought process used by Fords technical writers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Ahhhh, that is just way too figgin funny. definitely sounds like something you would say there, Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 When I get lost on back roads, I employ that exact same logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmantech Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Wow, I think I have been reading the FORD manual soo long that it started to make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Now that is funny. Too true on the shop manual writers. Here is a gem from the 2010 F150 shop manual for the removal of the Mechatronic in the 6R80 transmission that illustrates this: NOTICE: During removal of the mechatronic assembly, the thermal bypass valve will fall out of the transmission case. Damage to the valve will occur if the valve falls out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I could get worse guys. Ford could be out-sourcing the manuals to India. If that were to happen I am sure the Hot-Line would follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordracer Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Speaking of sending the hotline to India, GM already tried it. I don't know if they're still doing it but our instructor worked for GM for over 20 years and he said that so many of the calls the hotline recieved were questions that could of been answered if the tech would of read the service manual. So when you call you would get India and they had all the service manuals on hand to answer the question but if is was about a real problem you got transfered to the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 So this leads me to stop biting my tongue on this topic and thread. I read this as mocking the very documents we MUST rely on to perform our jobs. Some of us proclaim that the manuals are so fucked up that we are going to be incapable of diagnosing or repairing something properly with them while out of the other side of our mouths we bitch about fellow techs not reading the manual. Sometimes it seems so. Hmmm. The unequivocal truth is that service manuals are your second most important tool for diagnosing and performing repairs. The most important is your brain. We need to be encouraging each other, especially young techs, that the service publications are important. As we do this we need to understand that like anything else in life, we need to be thinking about what we are reading and what we are being instructed to do. We need to ask ourselves questions like: "what is being described, does this make sense, what is this test asking me to test, do I know how to perform this test properly, how am I supposed to interpret the results?" Thinking outside the box is great. Finding better or alternative test methods and more efficient repair procedures are important but let's not just dismiss the manuals. This does not mean that we shouldn't recognize that there are some screwy things in the manuals. Just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Keith, I agree totally, what you are stating is what experience teaches. One of my favorite sayings is that you must learn to "read between the lines" of the service manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Since we are on the subject, here is my take: Oasis - I personally run an OASIS on 98% of the vehicles I work on. TSB/SSM - These come up on OASIS and or I access them here at DTS. FSA - I always read an FSA before starting. I also recheck it briefly for any red text updates. Workshop manual - I consult this when confronted with a new task I have never done before or I need a torque spec. EVTM - I have this out even before I begin a wiring concern. I use this manual 100% of the time. It trumps both the workshop and PC/ED manuals. PC/ED - I use it for codes I have never seen before. I also use it for theory and operation, an extremely important tool for figuring out what the PCM is doing with inputs and outputs. The other tabs in PTS are used everyone once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Kieth... what I am saying is to see what the shop manual wants you to test and then to test THAT. Case in point - we are at a test step that has us test a circuits ability to supply B+ to a device - Fords manual , in the past, would have us disconnect that devices electrical connector and probe this open circuit for 12 volts. Certainly one might use the shop manual to see what needs to be tested, but to have one of the most inappropriate tests you can imagine be listed as the step..... I don't see that as talking out of both sides of my face. Ditto the practice of testing a ground with an ohmmeter... either one of these practices is sure to have you replace a module for no reason. Let's look at a 2008 SuperDuty - no communication with the ABS module. The symptom chart in 418-00 says some little blueb about fuse and crap and sends us to PPT B. I have no idea who does and who doesn't read the introduction to these tests... Personally, I do.... because the manual mentions "fuse" again. But that's OK, we are working on a diesel and we can test the fuse after we get the wheel house liner out... And we are going to take it out because B1 has us do this - <<<<Test Step Result / Action to Take B1 CHECK THE ABS MODULE VOLTAGE SUPPLY CIRCUITS FOR AN OPEN Ignition OFF. Disconnect: ABS Module C135 . Ignition ON. Measure the voltage between the ABS module C135-32, circuit CBB77 (WH), and C135-2, circuit SBB09 (RD), harness side and ground. Are the voltages greater than 10 volts? Yes GO to B2. No VERIFY the battery junction box (BJB) fuses 9 (40A) and 77 (10A) are OK. If OK, REPAIR the circuit in question. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the network test with the scan tool. >>>> This test step gives some very valuable information... connector number, circuit numbers, wire colours pin numbers - even a graphic representation of the connector itself giving us an idea where the pins are located in the connector. This is way cool until we get to the part where it tells us to stick our head up our ass.... along with the voltmeter we are using incorrectly. Read the service manual and get the info you need... but, for Gods sake, learn what info to disregard while you are doing it. And as long as that test and idiotic test procedures (heavy on the PROCEDURES) like B2 remain in the manual, I will continue to mock the manual. For test B3 (testing the HSCAN circuits by stretching yourself between the DLC and C135) consider this. If you probe HSCAN high and HSCAN low at the DLC, you SHOULD get 60ish ohms, right? What might a tech expect to read on his meter if he probed HSCAN high and HSCAN low at C135 (the ABS connector)? The manual is a very complex thing to read.... we absolutely need to read everything it has to offer, but we cannot let it lead us around by the nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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