2005 f250 w/ loud mechanical knock under load.....

deezul · October 6, 2011

Have a 2005 F250, 222111kms with an intermittent tick at idle and when under load truck stumbles, misses, makes a horrific mechanical knocking/clacking noise and smokes a rainbow of colours (black, white and blue). Truck performs well at normal operating conditions, has to be placed under high load demand for concern to happen (passing a vehicle, hill climb with trailer). No codes, relative compression at 0% across all cylinders and power balance shows no issues. Fuel pressure is in spec, have not checked base oil pressure. Other tech replaced EGR valve due to it's range failing on test. Truck had HPOP replaced 13k ago. Truck came in at 219k with a hole punched through IPR valve and no start. After replacing valve customer complained of the start of the tick. Tick at idle, very intermittent, has been isolated to RH bank. Have removed valve cover and oil rail, all components are intact and no components feel loose. Not overly familiar with lifter diagnosis/failing lifter symptoms. Have seen two engines fail do to the lifter failing but have never diagnosed a lifter on it's way out. Truck also has an AMSOIL filter bypass kit installed where by the oil feed leaves through the filter cap then proceeds to two filters mounted on the RH frame rail and then back into the oil fill spout on the RH valve cover (similar to this http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/bf.aspx ). The oil change intervals on this truck are extended by at least double now since this kit has been installed. Was wondering if perhaps it isn't as great as what the owner thinks and has possibly starved a component of base oil? Any thoughts, tips or ideas would be greatly appreciated..this is a new tree im barking up...

Fredsvt · October 7, 2011

Last truck I saw with that spamsoil bypass garbage on it was a 2002 7.3, the customer fully fell into their sales pitch. Use their oil, their lab and their filters. IIRC it had only one oil drain in 50k.

Let's just say the engine expired at 70k, as a direct result. Just prior, to the failure, with it knocking (not a rod), we sent out a sample to Blackstone at the same time we sent a sample to spamsoil.

The oil company's sample report came back, great! Keep going.

The blackstone report came back horrible. Metal of all kinds. It broke the crank not too long after, and took out the bottom of the block.

lmorris · October 7, 2011

2 things come to mind.

If you changed the IPR because of a damaged screen, did you change the filter screen under the oil cooler? If there is debris in the HPOP resevoir it may be affecting the new IPR.

Intermittent lifter issues can be tricky. Typically when these lifters start to fail they are constantly noisy. My guess would be a lack of oil pressure. I don't think the base oil pump would be designed to put out enough volume to go through the extra filters.

ETS · October 7, 2011

2 Things on my mind here also.

I had a wrecker with a cracked flexplate make a similar noise on a load. Although it doesn't explain the smoke. My flexplate was so bad it felt like a miss. Also make a quick check of drain plug magnet, If it is full of metal you know it will be teardown time.

deezul · October 7, 2011

It's valvetrain for sure, just having a hard time pinpointing what is causing this noise. Im just about to get back onto this unit and Im going to pull the drain plug to see if anything mischevious is going on...

joshbuys · October 7, 2011

Also, pull the oil pan and look at the camshaft. Rotate the engine by hand so you can see the top of all the cam lobes.

deezul · October 7, 2011

Nothing sinister on the plug...

Jim Warman · October 10, 2011

The oil company's sample report came back, great! Keep going.

We work for the "stealership". At the same time, the customer feels safe in handing the keys to the henhouse to the fox.

Some customers desparately need you to look them in the eye and say "Ford wont cover that repair".

Fredsvt · October 11, 2011

I can't ever call a Ford or other manufacturers store a "stealership", I worked for one a long time ago, and have way too good relationships with a Ford and Honda store nearby.

On another note...

I've long since lost the ability to sugar coat or tell half truths to customers.

It probably makes me look like an asshole to some of them, but if you want my honest opinion, you're gonna get it.

Like, for example, today. A 2000 Corolla, 90k miles, comes in, check for oil leak, "ever since you", and the oil light came on several times on hard stops. I get to it, maybe 1/2 quart total in engine including filter. When customer comes to get it, "what do you mean it burns oil, you just did.." (the 1.8 is notorious for bad rings with long OCI)

I told him as matter of factly, but not nasty, as I could, "your wife, who you hand-me-downed the car to you, did oil changes when she had other issues. That was about every 30k." "Recently, you just started changing the oil, 3 times in the last year, and every time it's been very low" I had his records ready to show him. He was not happy.

There have been so many 7.3 and 6.0 guys that have come thru, with programmers, K & Dirt filters and other mods, that expect warranty after blowing stuff up, they are shocked when I've told them don't expect much when you go.

Jim Warman · October 11, 2011

Like, for example, today. A 2000 Corolla, 90k miles, comes in, check for oil leak, "ever since you", and the oil light came on several times on hard stops.

This isn't a rare occurance.

You drop the pan on a trans with 200K on it and find the "Oh no, what is this!!!" plug. This trans has never had a service.... Most likely, the only reason it is getting a service now is because there is either a shifting concern (including missing gears) or an engagement concern... Of course a new filter and a few quarts of fluid are going to correct this... Right?.... Right?. Whaddayamean "toast"?

Customers desparately need to be educated.... and here we are... allowing kwikee-loob to educate them. Once the "cheap" places have all their money, they come to us for a fix... but it shouldn't cost much because all the parts are new...... Right?.... Right?

Oh, by the way... ever since you fixed my tailight, my motor has been using oil and the trans slips in most gears.... and the windshield is cracked.... and my sister is pregnant... and my TV has funny lines at the top of the screen... and the guy on the internet says you should pay me....

mchan68 · October 12, 2011

Oh, by the way... ever since you fixed my tailight, my motor has been using oil and the trans slips in most gears.... and the windshield is cracked.... and my sister is pregnant... and my TV has funny lines at the top of the screen... and the guy on the internet says you should pay me....

I'm with you there Jim. And that ranks up there HIGH on my list of pet peeves. Nine times out of ten, when the conversation begins with THOSE words, I usually don't even bother to stick around to listen to the rest of it.

Now Jim, how do you REALLY feel ......?

Jeff Clyde · October 12, 2011

I worked with a guy years ago; he loved those type of people. He used to say, " ever since just cost you .5 " !

Fredsvt · October 12, 2011

The new best one:

"EVER SINCE YOU... put those 4 new tires on my (POS Suzuki Daewoo) car they keep getting nails in them. I think you should give me my money back. My old tires NEVER had a problem".

Um, yeah, right. Those 2 front tires with the belts so badly shifted, I wouldn't leave the parking lot. And the CU Next Tuesday only complained they shook at speeds over 70 mph.

JSHTech · October 12, 2011

Oh, by the way... ever since you fixed my tailight, my motor has been using oil and the trans slips in most gears.... and the windshield is cracked.... and my sister is pregnant... and my TV has funny lines at the top of the screen... and the guy on the internet says you should pay me....

Posted Image I love it because it's so ridiculously true.

lmorris · October 13, 2011

Not sure if this is an "Ever since event", but I just looked at an 08 F350, lifted and chipped, that our other tech put a rad and hoses into. Now he is back with an oil leak. Not sure how they are related. The entire right glowplug harness was removed from the valve cover. I had to add 12L of oil. And it feels like it is running on 6 cylinders. Posted Image

I gave my theory to the service writer, but I am curious to hear the owners take on this.

I figure someone else had the harness out to diagnose the rough running......

deezul · October 14, 2011

Inspected the camshaft and found the rear most lobe (cylinder eight, exhaust lobe)to have a scored/rough appearence while the other lobes have a nice polished look. Also found the roller on the lifter to have the same appearence. Going to do some major tare down and see what else is going on...