06 E450 misfire/stalling problem (lil long)

nunan · March 14, 2012

So I'm working on this 06 e450, replacing an a/c compressor because it failed the semi annual bus inspection. No big deal, replace the compressor, broke an aluminum line adapter in the process (again..no big deal, just adds to the headache), get it all buttoned up and running, let it idle in the parking lot for 15-20 minutes, then ran it under a load to for a few minutes to make sure it was all peachy.

I go to take it for re-inspection this morning, and it starts right up and has plenty of power. I get about 5-6 miles, van starts bucking real hard and eventually dies. I could not restart right after it stalled. I waited for the tow truck (about an hour) and the bus started with no problem, and ran like it did when i first left. Get it towed back to the shop, drop the fuel filters and there is some slight amounts of crap in there (not neccessarily flakes, was hard to tell). I changed the filters because I was told the tank was delaminating last time it was worked on outside of my shop, so I've been changing the filters every 3k miles to try and prolong the life of it.

I changed the filters, took it down the road (load tested it prior to leaving for 4 minutes and it was fine. engine was still hot from earlier drive), got about 3 miles and truck did same thing. Got it towed back to the shop, started right back up and was fine. I dropped the tank, hoping to find giant flakes or like a tshirt floating in it that would cause it to clog the pickup, but of course.. tank looks fine. No obvious signs of delamination and only a slight amount of crap in the main baffle area where the pickup sits (had to scrape with a screwdriver to see if it was just rust or dirt) Pickup was clean with no signs of crap on it. The whole exterior of the tank is rusted and the powdercoat/paint is coming off in sheets.

So, my question is have you guys seen this/where do you think i should go. I am waiting on my log on stuff to get approved before I can check FMC, so right now I'm just going by past experiences. I also do not have a pressure gauge for fuel (yet). Thanks

nunan · March 15, 2012

update, it had codes P0336, P0341, P0463, P0528, P2614, P2617. Only codes that are current are the ones for the fuel sender (disconnected, waiting on a new one.)

nunan · March 15, 2012

Passed KOEO self test, injector test, KOER test and KOER glow plug test

Brad Clayton · March 15, 2012

Sounds like a good candidate for an engine wiring harness which are prone to fail more on the E-boxes.

Mbl35 · March 15, 2012

Happened to me a few times at the ambulace company. Exactly how you described, the first time i had to be towed back to the shop and it started right up as soon as it rolled off the flatbed. The second one i had i let it sit until it started like 20 minutes later. Both times it was the fuelpump and no codes. The fuelpump was failing under load when it cooled down it will run again.

But with the 336 and 341 sounds like it could be a harness concern, if you can get it to stall in or near the shop try pulling down on the cam and crank harness take outs and also behind the alternator area to see if it starts up.

Actually could need a fuelpump and a harness-not uncommon from what i saw when i was there.

nunan · March 15, 2012

I ordered the fuel pump for it, so I will replace that today. It threw the cam codes, but they were not hard codes. also didnt come up in the KOEO test, game up in the generic read codes (working with a genysis)

nunan · March 15, 2012

well I found the cam sensor connector...barely holding onto the cam sensor. Going to replace it, then check the crank sensor to make sure thats okay, and take it for a ride (once i get the new sending unit in the tank) Thanks for your help guys!

cbriggs · March 16, 2012

The description of your concern sure sound like fuel starvation. Have seen a few e series pumps pack it in. Combustion gasses entering the fuel rail can do that as well, but usually wont run that long before it dies. Have you watched pwr balance as it starts to run rough, and as it dies? If it always starts with the same cylinder dropping, then all cyinders on that bank that can indicate combustion gasses. If it drops all rh side first, that can indicated fuel starvation. Problem is when you have a leaking copper washer on rh side it can be missleading. I would try to track down a fuel pressure guage. Otherwise dont try more than 1 repair at a time, or you may never know what fixed it!

Keith Browning · March 16, 2012

The description of your concern sure sound like fuel starvation.... Combustion gasses entering the fuel rail can do that as well

That is what came to my mind when he and I discussed this bus.

nunan · March 16, 2012

Thats what I thought it was, until I was looking around underneathe and saw a little copper by the ckp sensor (wasnt the cam...been a while since i actually had to get the nomenclature right on a 6.0), low and behold I hit the CKP while i was putting the a/c compressor back in and cracked it. Had connection while idling and driving normally, but the vibrations from rompin on it or turnin on the a/c mustve jarred it loose enough to break connection. but wasnt enough to completely disconnect it, which kinda makes sense with the bucking. i was underneathe it with it running, and touched the crank sensor wire and it died. did it 5 times to make sure I wasnt inadvertantly touching something else. Dropped the tank to be sure though and replaced the FSU (was bad to begin with) so i got a chance to do a thorough inspection on the tank..and its fine. So back on the road she goes...and onto my next project.. CE bus with no communication through the DLC. should be fun..

Thanks for all the help guys!

Aaron · March 17, 2012

That's a great spot for the CKP, isn't it?

First AC compressor I did on an E, I broke the sensor. Then broke the sensor off in the block.

Then began drinking heavily.

nunan · March 27, 2012

Ive done a few already, and this is the first time i've broken one.

stupid spot for the ckp anyway..

Keith Browning · March 28, 2012

stupid spot for the ckp anyway..

Where would you like to have the CKP? Behind the flywheel where you have to pull the trans to replace it? Don't worry, Ford thought of that one. Lucky for YOU the 6.7L is not being stuffed in vans/buses.

nunan · March 28, 2012

Id rather them mount the a/c compressor in the spot of the vacuum pump and get rid of vacuum operated controls on my vans lol and thank god they arent...otherwise youd be seeing more of my vans hah