Keith Browning Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 In my blown engine topic I mentioned a stop sale on long blocks and that Ford was sending a new set of glow plugs for the engine they shipped to me. Well the difference is clear to see here. The overall length of the glow plugs are the same however the ones they sent have a shorter dimension from the seat to the tip of the plug. So, this means there has to have been a change somewhere in the engine requiring a "shorter plug" but there is no documentation. I did get some stickers warning of the part number of the correct plugs to stick on the valve covers. I was going to measure the difference but I got involved in going home... will do on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yeah there was a parts & service message about this maybe a week ago. I believe the change is mid year 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I read that same message, but now I can't find it. It's as if it were removed on purpose for some odd reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Found it in the Job Aides for 2012 on PTS. 6.7L Glow Plug/Cylinder Head Design Running Change See file attached. This is need to know about stuff. 67L_Glow_Plug.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy57 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Change costs money and no manufacturer likes giving any of that away. There must be a damn good reason the heads and GP's were changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks for that, Keith. I have been trying to get this info to my parts guys for some time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 There must be a damn good reason the heads and GP's were changed. Well it seems apparent that a change was made to the cylinder head. If I were to guess this might have something to do with the valve seat and valve failures that have cropped up. I doubt Ford would redesign the cylinder head to change the glow plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRufo Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I heard from a couple guys the glow plugs were causing internal engine damage. I guess the ends were falling off into the combustion chamber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I heard from a couple guys the glow plugs were causing internal engine damage. I guess the ends were falling off into the combustion chamber. This may be a different issue. TSB 12-11-11 has us throwing a long block at any 2011 6.7L with damaged glow plugs but it does not indicate or state what is causing the damage to the plugs or vice-verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autoworker Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 6.7 cyl no 3 glow plug tip gone no compression /complete engine to come /update 6.7 cyl head removed glow plug smashed valves pieces of valve jammed in exhaust side of turbo taking out fins /make sure you find all the pieces or clean er good before you transfer all the parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'm doing one right now, too... 18.3 hours baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 I am just curious as to what everyone here has concluded on this issue now that some time has passed. Here is where I am. Not one service or warranty document indicates a glow plug as the causal part of this type of engine failure. The original TSB 12-11-11 lists part number 6505 (exhaust valve) as the causal part. The TSB references glow plug damage (including glow plug circuit coded) as a diagnostic inspection for the purpose of identifying and verifying catastrophic engine damage. Our engine failure analasis reference guide makes no mention of failed glow plugs however it does reference "dropped valve guides" in the possible causes list. This service bulletin was later revised to change the causal part number to a 6006 (engine long block) and to revise the labor time from 18.3 hours to 20 The bulletin supercedes to TSB 14-0127 updating the causal part number to 6006 (engine long block assembly) and the labor time to hours 20.4. TSB 14-0147 states it much more clearly: "Some 2011 F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with a 6.7L diesel engine and built on or before 3/29/2011 may exhibit a runs rough or no crank concern due to a broken exhaust valve. DTCs P0671, P0672, P0673, P0674, P0675, P0676, P0677 and/or P0678 may be stored in the powertrain control module (PCM) from a damaged glow plug. The glow plug circuit DTCs may also be accompanied by cylinder misfire DTCs, cylinder contribution DTCs or other engine performance DTCs." As far as I am concerned at this point, it is understood that the cylinder heads were redesigned to correct the exhaust valve seat concern resulting in a change in the glow plugs. Not the other way around. Someone please correct me if I am wrong and show me some sort of documentation to support that the glow plugs are the cause of this concern. The glow plug Reference Guide on the PTS website was published to advise technicians of this cylinder head and glow plug production running change, provide the part numbers for the glow plugs and show how to identify what cylinder head is installed on the engine and which glow plug is to be used. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6.7 DIESEL – RUNS ROUGH – NO CRANK – GLOW PLUG CIRCUIT DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) – BUILT ON OR BEFORE 3/29/2011 TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 12-11-11 Reference Number(s): 12-11-11 Date of Issue: November 16 2012 FORD: 2011 F-Super Duty ISSUE Some F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with a 6.7L diesel engine and built on or before 3/29/2011 may exhibit a runs rough or no crank concern. DTCs P0671, P0672, P0673, P0674, P0675, P0676, P0677, and/or P0678 may be stored in the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The glow plug circuit DTCs may also be accompanied by cylinder misfire DTCs, cylinder contribution DTCs or other engine performance DTCs. ACTION Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition. SERVICE PROCEDURE 1. Does the vehicle exhibit a runs rough, no crank concern with any of the following DTCs P0671, P0672, P0673, P0674, P0675, P0676, P0677, and/or P0678? a. No – this article does not apply. Refer to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for normal diagnosis. b. Yes – proceed to Step2. 2. Remove and inspect the glow plug associated with glow plug circuit DTC present. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-07C. Is the glow plug damaged? a. No – this article does not apply. Refer to the PC/ED manual for normal diagnosis. b. Yes – replace the engine long block. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01C. i. For prior approval warranty repairs, complete cost cap tool by selecting short block, both cylinder heads, oil cooler and 16 lifters. PARTS INFORMATION Part Number Part Name BC3Z-6006-F Long block BC3Z-6079-B Installation Kit WARRANTY INFORMATION WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage. Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. IMPORTANT: Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified casual part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool. WARRANTY INFORMATION Operation Description Time 121111A 2011 F-Super Duty 6.7 L Check DTCs, Inspect 18.0 Hrs. Glow Plug, Replace Long Block Can Be Claimed With Operation "B" 121111B Additional time to contact hotline and complete 0.3 Hr. Online forms. This operation is to be used only for Dealerships that require prior approval (Can Be Claimed With Operation A) DEALER CODING Basic Part No. Condition Code 6505 01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FORD: 2011 F-Super Duty This article supersedes TSB 12-11-11 to update the Warranty Causal Part Number, Part List and Service Labor Time Standards. ISSUE: Some 2011 F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with a 6.7L diesel engine and built on or before 3/29/2011 may exhibit a runs rough or no crank concern due to a broken exhaust valve. DTCs P0671, P0672, P0673, P0674, P0675, P0676, P0677 and/or P0678 may be stored in the powertrain control module (PCM) from a damaged glow plug. The glow plug circuit DTCs may also be accompanied by cylinder misfire DTCs, cylinder contribution DTCs or other engine performance DTCs. ACTION: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition. SERVICE PROCEDURE 1. Does the vehicle exhibit a runs rough, no crank concern with any of the following DTCs P0671, P0672, P0673, P0674, P0675, P0676, P0677 and/or P0678? a. No - this article does not apply. Refer to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for normal diagnosis. b. Yes - proceed to Step 2. 2. Remove and inspect the glow plug associated with glow plug circuit DTC present. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-07C. Is the glow plug damaged? a. No - this article does not apply. Refer to the PC/ED manual for normal diagnosis. b. Yes - replace the engine long block. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01C. (1) For prior approval warranty repairs, complete the cost cap tool by selecting short block, both cylinder heads, oil cooler and 16 lifters. PART NUMBER PART NAME FC3Z-6006-A Long Block BC3Z-6079-B Installation Kit FC3Z-00810-A Spacers FC3Z-9Y427-A Exhaust Manifold Heat Shield DC3Z- 9A462-A Shield - Pickup DC3Z-9A462-B Shield - Chassis Cab OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 140127A 2011 F-Super Duty 6.7L Check DTCs, Inspect Glow Plug, Replace Long Block Following The WSM Procedure (Can Be Claimed With Operation 20.4 Hrs. NOTE: The information contained in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service.The procedures should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers". Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury dealership to determine whether the bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article.The information in this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates.The most recent information is available through Ford Motor Company's on-line technical resources. Copyright © 2014 Ford Motor Company Online Publication Date July 3, 2014 PAGE1 OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 140127B Additional Time To Contact Hotline And Complete The Online Forms. This Operation Is To Be Used Only For Dealerships That Require Prior Approval Can Be Claimed With Operation "A" 0.3 Hr. WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool. DEALER CODING BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE 6006 42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 And what prompted me to look all this shit up and compile a lengthy summary? https://youtu.be/HN8L4ZTGtOs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 As far as I have ever known, the glow plug failure is an effect of the valve failure, and not the other way around. And, as far as I am also concerned, Makuloco has about as much credibility with me as Bill Hewitt does... There's a reason he doesn't work for Ford any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 This is a simple case of repeating something you read on the internet without actually knowing anything about the subject. Makuloco is an internet tech, he mostly posts simple common repair directions and promotes his videos. He definitely has no business talking about the diesel side of it. The only place I have heard of glow plug tip failure is on the public message boards. Ford knows this concern is directly associated with the exhaust valve face cracking and eventually chipping a piece off. The glow plug design change just added to the confusion. If I get a chance I'll post some pics of the cracked valves I took out of an early 6.7 that had main bearing failure. Had we not known about the valve issues I never would have found these and replaced them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 And, as far as I am also concerned, Makuloco has about as much credibility with me as Bill Hewitt does... There's a reason he doesn't work for Ford any more. Please dont change your avatar to this guys mug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He had a whole series of videos where he was giving away information that some would consider proprietary, and trashing Ford and their policies... Then, suddenly, he didn't work for Ford anymore... Coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 How do you know he does not work at a Ford dealer any more? BTW he is a DTS member. Hasn't logged in in 4 or 5 years apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I watched a few videos a long time ago and thought to myself........I really don't want the general motoring public to know some of this stuff also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Are you telling me we lost a member to Youtube? That Youtube is a powerful beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 That depends on what you mean by "lost." He is still a member in good standing here. Just saying that his statistics indicate that it has been quite a while since he has last logged into these forums. That reminds me that it is time for the yearly "dragnet" member email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forddieseldoctor Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Wow. I can't believe I just wasted 3 1/2 minutes of my life watching that moron. As far as I know and understand it's the exhaust valve gets baked from excessive egr flow and then it breaks off and trashes stuff not the glow plug failing first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 How do you know he does not work at a Ford dealer any more? BTW he is a DTS member. Hasn't logged in in 4 or 5 years apparently. Second hand information... I usually get the urge to ram an icepick up my nose when I see his videos. One of the guys I work with said that he posted a video in regards to him no longer being an employee for a Ford dealership. I've never seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I thought it was valve seats dropping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 That depends on what you mean by "lost." He is still a member in good standing here. Just saying that his statistics indicate that it has been quite a while since he has last logged into these forums. That reminds me that it is time for the yearly "dragnet" member email.Lost as in too busy making youtube vids and no time for forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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