2003 6.0L HPOP Swap

[ktmlew]

Doing my first 6.0L HPOP. I left the Ford diesel world back in summer of 05 so missed-out on a bunch of the fun...

 

Is the WSM procedure the best way to go? I have drained the rad about 1/2 way, removed de-gas bottle, FICM & harness, fan stator (possibly not absolutely necessary?), and was removing the turbo when I quit last evening. The rear bolt on the downpipe side is rounded-off...fuck!. Working in their front yard...but at least they had an EZ-Up to provide some shade!!!

 

According to the WSM you have to remove the intake manifold. Can you get the HPOP cover and pump out w/o removing the intake?

[Bruce Amacker]

rear bolt on the downpipe side is rounded-off...fuck!.

 

Common.

 

1. Use a brand new 10mm six point socket, but you know that's already too late.

 

2. Use a "turbo" socket for rounded bolts if you have one. If it's the bolt with the fat spacer, use a turbo socket that fits the spacer.

 

3. If all else fails, put a 4' piece of pipe or prybar in the turbo outlet, pry up and to the driver's side. This will snap the bolthead off, not harming the stand, and the threaded stub will twist out with your fingers. I suggest against torches to burn the bolthead off.

 

I "think" the early trucks have a rear crossover in the manifold that will not allow access to the HPOP. I'm sure someone here will correct me if wrong. There's an updated HPOP cover if you have the money for it, to prevent the discharge tube from rubbing on the cover. IIRC Mike Chan posted on this recently.

 

Be careful putting the cover on so you don't tear the o-ring on the discharge tube that engages into the cover. Lube it. Shit happens.

 

 

Good Luck!

 

[Keith Browning]

I have done the barbaric pry to break the bolt head off - did not work as described and ended up destroying the pedestal. I use a torch now when all else fails. A good turbo socket is worth its weight in gold however!!!

[mchan68]

Yes, that is correct. On a 2003 engine you HAVE TO remove the intake to access the HPOP. It's funny that you should post this up now. I just did one this last Friday. Remove the intake and EGR cooler as one assembly together. And ditto on what Keith said regarding the one rear bolt on the turbo. I use a dentist's mirror and a torch if it's stubborn. The pics that Bruce are referring are here:

 

 

 

 

 

And here is the discharge tube where it contacts the underside of the cover.

 

 

And here is how I like to air test a 2003 engine for HPO leaks, except that by doing it using this method removes the IPR and HPOP from the equation.

 

GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN.

[ktmlew]

Thanks guys. I have read about every 6.0L thread here so felt like I was going in the right direction. I have a turbo socket on the bolt. The fucker is TIGHT. Am going to try to heat it. Then the big bar comes out. Actually tried prying some but wasn't sure which way I was supposed to go so quit while I was ahead? Just thought of something. A long handle shovel would work nicely as a prying tool. The handle would be less likely to doing any damage to the turbo inlet.

 

I'm hoping the cover has already been updated but customer doesn't seem to be concerned about cost.

 

The truck will run about 5-6 minutes and will barely move on flat ground. IPR starts at around 26% and after about 2 minutes quickly starts ramping up to 84.7 % and truck dies. Engine runs perfectly smooth and sounds normal right up to stall. IPR goes up, ICP drops and stalls. Removed aftermarket oil filter, told owner before I started they are a no-no, and cranked over. Filter housing fills pretty quickly. Changed ICP & pigtail as sensor was leaking oil. Slight change in ICP KOEO reading but still quits around 167 degrees coolant temp. Checked Fuel Pressure and had 57lbs @ idle and 59 under load but "loaded" is relative as it won't pull enough to test drive. Am using a 15 year old FP gauge so reading is likely skewed a bit high but felt it was close enough. After replacing ICP it took a lot more cranking to start than I liked. Removed oil filter and it was pretty close to dry right after shut-down. Told customer I suspected oil filter was too short and CV wasn't closed. Found I was correct. Advance filter-to-cap-flange distance about 12mm short. With Ford filter truck would start fairly normally until it got some heat in it. He said it has started doing the long crank time about the last month, apparently after last oil change and had lost power. I have NOT air tested it. Am hoping when I remove the IPR it wil show metal to help support likely HPOP fault. Will air test rest of system as above picture once I get there. I will also have a hose/fitting made up to connect to ICP hole for future testing.

 

Man I hope the branch tube doesn't have a worn spot...no way I can pull the trans where truck is now. Will have to tow it.

 

Unfortunately when doing initial diag had at least 10 people milling around talking/laughing/telling stories and asking 100 questions. Theses are tough enough to diag w/o having an audience.

 

Any further info/criticism of diag is welcome. Do you guys always replace IPR when doing a pump? I would prefer to, as access on these suck when working w/o a rack.

 

Just though of something...if EGR cooler will come out attached to intake I won't have to mess with the connecting hose? Or should I change it to cover my ass?

 

Lastly...anyone have a parts list of rec'd parts handy? I have done a short-block on one of these but that was in early 2005. I have CRS...getting old is a bitch!!!

 

I'm assuming:

 

HPOP

HPOP cover & gasket? Does cover still include IPR?

Turbo Mounting kit<don't remember what comes in "kit" but assume o-rings & bolts?>

IPR if I don't change cover.

Intake gaskets.

EGR cooler hose.

Anti-freeze.

 

Customer will get parts so will need a fairly definitive list.

 

Thanks again guys!!!

[ktmlew]

Also...kinda ironic that a week after I tried to sell my AE Ford scanner I get a request to use it? I'm not as impressed with it as I expected. It doesn't do as many tests as I thought like no active commands, injector cancelling, etc. But this is the first time I've used it on a 6.0L It will pay for itself on this job...

[ktmlew]

Are the 303-756 block-off plugs available anywhere for a reasonable price. Only listing I've found is $350.00 for 2 plugs? Ouch!!!

[Jeff Clyde]

When the rear bolt on the turbo is " round", I spit the turbo, remove pedestal bolts, then move the pedestal and the back half of the turbo into a better position to either use heat safely, or get more leverage on the rear bolt. Only takes minutes, and you can service the turbo at the same time.

[Brad Clayton]

[lmorris]

And if you hold your tongue just right and don't mind bending the cowl just a bit, you can remove the pedestal with the housing still connected. Then you can separate them on the bench.

[ktmlew]

When the rear bolt on the turbo is " round", I spit the turbo, remove pedestal bolts, then move the pedestal and the back half of the turbo into a better position to either use heat safely, or get more leverage on the rear bolt. Only takes minutes, and you can service the turbo at the same time.

Nice. Truck is sitting in customers yard and he forgot to leave keys...no workie today and calling for storms next couple days.

[ktmlew]

And if you hold your tongue just right and don't mind bending the cowl just a bit, you can remove the pedestal with the housing still connected. Then you can separate them on the bench.

 

Could remove front 4 cab bolts and raise cab a little so i don't have to get primitive?

[ktmlew]

Hate to ask here as Jim will freak-out on me...customer wants to do an EGR delete. Any issues with the $130.00 kits on eBay?

[Jim Warman]

Nope.. not gonna freak at all... However, the egr delete kit will come with a disclaimer that reads something like "This product is designed for off-road, legal racing/competitions use only and may not be legally used on public highways, streets, or other."

 

A person will be judged by his actions and people will assume the substance of ones integrity and honesty based on those actions. We all call a politician a crook is he abuses his office and the trust we place in him. What shall we call a mechanic that violates the public trust placed in his hands?

 

We can all use the argument that "if I don't do it, the guy down the street will". But the sad reality is that the buck has to stop somewhere...

 

The best way to avoid more new laws and more draconian laws is to obey the ones we have. If we don't, government will just keep on getting bigger and bigger and stick their nose into more and more of your business.

[lmorris]

Hate to ask here as Jim will freak-out on me...customer wants to do an EGR delete. Any issues with the $130.00 kits on eBay?

You will most likely need a tuner to turn off the MIL because of EGR flow codes. I doubt the $130 will cover that. After all is said and done it is cheaper and smarter to just keep the coolant maintained. If he is really worried about it, replace the oil cooler, flush the coolant real good, and make sure he keeps it maintained.

 

You will also need the oring that goes on the PCV connection at the left valve cover. w302725 I believe.

[ktmlew]

Originally Posted By: ktmlew

Hate to ask here as Jim will freak-out on me...customer wants to do an EGR delete. Any issues with the $130.00 kits on eBay?

You will most likely need a tuner to turn off the MIL because of EGR flow codes. I doubt the $130 will cover that. After all is said and done it is cheaper and smarter to just keep the coolant maintained. If he is really worried about it, replace the oil cooler, flush the coolant real good, and make sure he keeps it maintained.

 

You will also need the oring that goes on the PCV connection at the left valve cover. w302725 I believe.

 

 

I will remove the oil cooler and inpect the oil drain screen and rec replacment of oil cooler. Couldn't test the oil cooler before tear-down. According to what i've read on the internet the 03 doesn't kick codes with a delete. I don't want to do the delete and think the customer is going to let me decide.

 

Those PCV connections always broke the retainer tabs when I was doing this stuff back when they were new. I hate doing this stuff outside and w/o being able to get the parts myself...I'm used to being more in control of the situation.

 

Didn't work on it today. Hopefully the rain will stay away tomorrow?

[mchan68]

2003 engines NEVER fail the EGR cooler anyways, so it's a moot point. I get a real kick out of the number of 2003 trucks on the road running EGR deletes in them. While I fully understand why owners would want them, on the flip side of things, I see MANY trucks with high mileage still using the original EGR coolers in them, right down to the original orange EGR cooler inlet hoses, INCLUDING late-2004 and up ones.

[ktmlew]

2003 engines NEVER fail the EGR cooler anyways, so it's a moot point. I get a real kick out of the number of 2003 trucks on the road running EGR deletes in them. While I fully understand why owners would want them, on the flip side of things, I see MANY trucks with high mileage still using the original EGR coolers in them, right down to the original orange EGR cooler inlet hoses, INCLUDING late-2004 and up ones.

 

That was my understanding also. The round EGR cooler is apparently more durable possibly due to it being less efficent which was the reason for the square "update"? The owner has been talking about bigger exhaust, K&N Filter & eventually a tuner.

 

Logic has no place in the discussion. I've given up. It's his money & truck. Unlike some I don't have a two week back-log of vehicles to work on so have to do what I have to do. Don't nec agree with it or like it but...?

[ktmlew]

It's all apart. No metal on IPR. Air tested @ branch tube no other leaks! HPOP ball plug intact. Oil cooler drain screen was torn. Branch tube had a very small mark from hitting the cover. Might have even happened when removing cover.

 

So here is my plan:

 

1. New HPOP

2. HPOP COVER

3. New IPR to CYA.

4. Hot-tank intake manifold.

5. Inspect EGR valve-replace as needed

6. Updated turbo oil drain tube.

7. Updated turbo oil supply tube?

8. New oil cooler

9. Iat 2 <price it's really clogged> already cleaned it but?

10. Gaskets?

 

What else?

[mchan68]

See your other post in the parts section for part numbers. BTW, I would strongly advise against installing a K & N air intake. I have seen my share of dusted turbos from them. The stock air intake system is more than capable of supplying adequate airflow up to 500 HP if that's what he's after.

[ktmlew]

See your other post in the parts section for part numbers. BTW, I would strongly advise against installing a K & N air intake. I have seen my share of dusted turbos from them. The stock air intake system is more than capable of supplying adequate airflow up to 500 HP if that's what he's after.

 

Exactly what I told him. I mentioned something about a grenade with a loose pin...last thing these need is a bunch of mods IMO.

 

Really appreciate all the help.

[Brad Clayton]

If you run an aftermarket air filter in an ebp deleted '03, it can be a bitch to keep the check engine lite out.

[Mbl35]

I wouldn't replace the iat, not necesary just clean it.

[Mbl35]

I wouldn't replace the iat, not necesary just clean it

A few times I forgot to clean it and never had a problem.

[Jim Warman]

See your other post in the parts section for part numbers. BTW, I would strongly advise against installing a K & N air intake. I have seen my share of dusted turbos from them. The stock air intake system is more than capable of supplying adequate airflow up to 500 HP if that's what he's after.

+1 on the dust ingestion - not just turbos that die a slow and painful death.

 

As for an air filter supporting "horsepower"... one consideration is going to be BSFC. In an ideal world, fuel consumed is going to be directly related to air processed. This can be computed (by someone better at math than me)into a cubic feet per minute or even a cubic feet per rpm per pound of boost number. What race is he trying to win and how much is the paycheque?

 

Of course, there are always going to be those who insist on "rolling the coal". For these ijits, I would suggest a requirement that a hose be fitted to the exhaust to redirect the object of their desires into the cab of their truck.

 

If you are defeating emissions controls, I really don't mind as long as it is only you that is being affected. If you have a swimming pool in your back yard, you can piss in it all you like. It is when you piss our shared swimming pool that it starts to become personal.