Alex Bruene Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 There was a conversation on INFORD that was recently removed by the brass, but I think it was an important topic... I hear time and time again about people having their pay deducted because of denied claims, come-backs, broken items, accidents and such, and it seems like a lot of people are either bullied in to it, or don't know what their rights are... In Ontario, the Employment Standards Act states that (other than by court order) no deductions other than taxes and union dues can be made without written authorization by the employee. It also goes on to say that even with written authorization, it is against the act to deduct from somebody's pay due to faulty work, rejected claims, damage to company equipment and lost or missing money or property (as long as you are not the ONLY person to have access to it). Perhaps everybody should look into what the laws are in your jurisdictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exmod110 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It is also against labor law in Manitoba. When I worked at the dealer, that was not an issue.... If it was something I did for damage, I fixed it on my own time with parts eaten by the dealer and I was ok with that. One just made sure they didn't make a habit of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I had to pay $400 the last time I wrecked a car into another car out in the lot. You know, moving cars around so we can get work in and out. Customers insist on blocking our narrow drive lane and it infuriates me. Any drop offs overnight are just parked anywhere with no rhyme or reason, blocking lanes, blocking doors, like no one has any common sense. To expect anyone else in service to get there early and move cars around is absolutely ridiculous When I dropped that 250 off the rack a few weeks ago I made it pretty clear I wasn't paying anything and still working there. Anything that's broke during the course of a repair is just absorbed by the shop. Stuff happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The labor laws are the same way here in Alberta. I have always known my rights and definitely expressed them with some of my employers at times. No one deducted from me after I left that third world country called Saskatchewan in 1999. Places had tried, but I exercised my rights which about 90% of techs fail to do and just take it up the ole' orifice because they are too afraid to rock the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 One of the biggest reasons I left a dealer as most here in AZ will take money(hours) from you as they see fit. Hell I have had to fix other techs rechecks for free without a deduction of his paycheck. I would/will always stand by my craftsmanship and never expect to get paid again for something I messed up or missed during my repair but having so many people involved in your paycheck(service managers, service advisors, warranty admin, FOMOCO etc) I would end up loosing something somewhere most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofaster23 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Here in California it is illegal to "back flag" a technician but no techs seem to know that so the dealer gets away with it. At my previous dealer I got back flagged from a charge back on a 6.4 ESB I did months earlier. They wanted to back flag 10 plus hours, I cited the labor law section to the service manager. He gave me a cold stare but after that, no back flags. It's called the cost of doing business. If your dealer is back flagging you on repairs that you already got paid for on your paycheck, they need to refund you your income taxes you paid on that money. So say you get paid $30 and hour, get back flagged 15 hours ($450 without taxes), with a 7% tax rate, ask for your $31.50 back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 To me it seems that the REASON you would be backflagged is key. If you were not supposed to be paid time in the first place then it wasn't yours to begin with. If a claim bounces because somebody else screwed something up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 That's just it Keith, I'm sure allot of these guys have had situations like I have had in the past. If the dealership cannot get their shit together and get the R.O's put through within 90 days, that is their own damned fault, not the tech's. I used to get deducted on a regular basis for R.O's that Ford wouldn't pay. And allot of the time it was because they screwed something up behind the warranty desk and Ford wouldn't pay or in some cases it was just plain fraudulent work orders should have should have just plain never been warranty. The first Alberta dealership I worked at when I came here in 1999 went through a stage 4 audit because of all the fraudulent modification crap they were doing and warrantying the shit out of it all. They tried it on me and I wouldn't stand for it. That was just a small factor at that place. Before I went to work at S.L. Ford, I was in a situation where the dealership tried to take half of my hours because I was training apprentices. I called bullshit on that one. The apprentice got their time for what they were working on and I did not get any pay for training them, then they wanted to split my flat rate hours to help pay for the apprentice. What fucking place in their right fucking mind charges a Journeyman to train an apprentice? The owner saw it as if the apprentice made me more efficient. He did not see the real fact the the apprentice slowed me down. That's what happens when a salesman who has never pulled in a wrench owns a dealership. Needless to say I went north to Slave Lake. Thank god I ended the Ford scene at a place that allowed me to feel proud about where I was leaving for all the right reasons and gave me some faith that not all dealerships are that fraudulent. When I went to work in lloydminster at eh Ford dealership, I had just left Wainwright where I was Shop Foreman/Assistant Service Manager, so I knew the warranty system very well. I went on the bench and looked up my own times and forwarded them. I was constantly getting lower pay than I should have been. I started investigating it and interrogating the Service Manager about it. He said that they had just gone through a Stage 2 audit and they had to cut back their times and could not pay all the labor codes I was forwarding. So I compared what he was paying me in hours to what the closed R.O's had charged on them to Ford. Guess what? He was paid a bonus on gross profit of the shop. He charged every single hour I had looked up and forwarded and cut the times paid out to boost the profit of the service department and make his bonus larger. When I found this out, I took all the R.O's to the owner of the dealership with my findings and he was actually rather pissed off that I find out their dirty little secret and could care less that I found out. Needless to say I left and went to Fourlane Ford in Innisfail. None of the techs at that shop to this day even look up their own times and have absolutely no friggin idea to this day as to why they have such crappy pay. I now call on that shop with Mac Tools and walk in there only to see that nothing has changed. Places like that make me happy that I left the Ford scene. But places like S.L. Ford make me happy that there is the odd honest shop out there. Not many in my eyes but a small amount at least. And I'm damned sure that there are some other pretty wild stories from other Ford tech's out there. From what I can tell Keith, you seem to work at a damned good dealership, But trust me there are allot of real crooked shady dealerships out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Dwayne, I don't know what the rules are up there in Canada but here in the US we have 30 days from the date the repair order is opened to submit the claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 It used to be 90 days here. Maybe in the last year an half since I've left Ford things might have changed as well. But not sure to be honest with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 In all reality, Keith, it has nothing to do with when a claim might be submitted, whether it was submitted at all or even if the RO was never paid (by anyone). You do the job and you get paid - with the sole caveat being that if you are overpaid for anything and they later find their mistake, then that was, obviously, never the techs money to begin with. (there's the story about the guy who looked in his pay packet and found he was overpaid by $300. A week later, he looked in his pay packet to see he was $300 short. He complained and was told "You didn't complain last week when we gave you too much". He replied, "One mistake I can take - but two in a row?"). In Alberta, this kind of stuff is covered by the Alberta Employment Standards Branch. This web page echoes what Alex stated exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 It used to be 90 days here. Maybe in the last year an half since I've left Ford things might have changed as well. But not sure to be honest with you. 60 days now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofaster23 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 To me it seems that the REASON you would be backflagged is key. If you were not supposed to be paid time in the first place then it wasn't yours to begin with. If a claim bounces because somebody else screwed something up... At that time they were back flagging all diesel techs and skimming off of the service advisor's and parts counterperson's spiff programs to help pay off a huge chargeback from a Ford audit. I'm glad I don't work there anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.