Ford-LCF & International-CF

Keith Browning · April 5, 2005

I don't know why I am so interested in this new model. Okay I do, we sell, or used to sell UD Trucks along with our Ford line-up. The worst trucks ever unleashed on American roads in my opinion. That franchise is on it's way out and just in time for the introduction of the Ford LCF which is a Ford built truck with an International engine. If you have done any research you would know that International is also gearing up to sell the same truck named the "CF." Snoop around and compare the specs below. I was wondering if anyone knows if International contributes more than just the powerplant for this truck. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif It is built on a 550 chassis from what I have been told with a similar drivetrain and suspension. I have noticed that International offers some different options like a 70 gal. fuel tank. I think this is going to be an interesting addition to the Ford line-up! I guess I had better think about adding a Forum for the 4.5L Power Stroke!!!

GVWR: 16,000 lb.., 17,999 lb.. and 19,500 lb..
Engine: Power Stroke® 4.5L V-6 Diesel, 200* HP @3000 rpm, 440* lb.-ft. torque @1850 rpm
Transmission: TorqShift™ 5-speed Automatic O/D with Tow/Haul function, PTO provision: opt.
Wheelbases/CAs: 113"/84"; 137"/108"; 149"/120"; 167"/138"; 185"/156"
Frame Rails: High Strength, Huckbolted, 50,000 lb.. psi
Axles:
– Front: I-Beam 6,000 lbs./7,000 lb..

– Rear: Single speed 11,000 lbs./13,500 lb..
Suspension:
– Front: Taper-Leaf, 6,000 lbs./7,000 lb..

– Rear: Vari-Rate 11,000 lbs./13,500 lb..
Fuel Tank: 40 gal. (rear of axle - between frame rails) std./ 35 gal. single/dual (side) opt.
Wheels – 19.5" (Steel or Polished Aluminum) and Tires
5-speed Automatic O/D Transmission

Keith Browning · April 16, 2005

My sales department received a Fax on Friday from Ford that all medium duty dealers with LCF's on order need to complete the required training BEFORE they will send their trucks!

The prerequisite Fordstar class airs Monday April 17 from 1:30pm to 4:00pm(?) and then you must attend a one day class - probably a new model course.

Dale Lakin · April 21, 2005

This is another Blue Diamond truck. Not sure where the F550 chasiss part came from but I don't think that is correct. It is basically an Isuzu truck platform from the looks of the one I saw at NTEA convention a month or so ago. Twin-turbo that is "one" piece style. It was supposed to hit the street in the 03 model year and has been pushed back repeatedly because of various issues with the 4.5 and the tranny from what I understand.

Keith Browning · April 21, 2005

http://www.commtruck.ford.com/ctw/lcf_launch/

This ain't no Isuzu! But Isuzu is currently the leader in sales for medium duty tilt cab trucks. And doesn't GM put their badges on Isuzu built tilt cab models? I don't remember where I heard the F550 chassis info and from looking a t pictures it looks more like a F650. When I go to the training I will ask MANY MANY questions! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif

JOINT VENTURE

The LCF is being developed as part of the Blue Diamond joint venture (JV) and will be assembled at the JV’s Escobedo, Mexico facility. The joint venture was formed in February 2001 to build a variety of commercial trucks to be marketed and serviced separately by Ford and its JV partner. In September 2002, Ford debuted its 2004 F-650 and F-750 Super Duty trucks, the first products to result from the joint venture.

Dale Lakin · April 23, 2005

This ain't no Isuzu! But Isuzu is currently the leader in sales for medium duty tilt cab trucks. And doesn't GM put their badges on Isuzu built tilt cab models?

Yes your correct GM rebadges the Isuzu but so did Navistar up until a few years ago. Your porbably right that it isn't built on that chasiss but it sure looks like one to me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

Dale Lakin · April 25, 2005

I couldn't figure out how to attach pictures here so here is a link to 2 that I scanned from our EPC Twin Turbo and Block picture

Keith Browning · April 26, 2005

Your attachments are password protected meaning you have to be a member, I suppose. You can't add attachments on our bulletin boards but I have allowed images in posts. This requires the image to be on a Web accessible server and you simply add the address an the pop-up text box that pops-up when you click the "Image button" below. I f you want, you can email the images to me and I can stick-em on the server here and we can add them. Some day... If I can cover the small cost of running this site I might upgrade the whole thing which would include member photo galleries and other fun stuff.

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I had to try it just to be sure it works! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

Dale Lakin · April 26, 2005

Well then sign up not like you don't have the extra time to read another board

Grrrrrr ok so right click go to properties and copy and paste the URL evidently I can't hotlink from where I have them at...

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Keith Browning · June 1, 2005

The LCF is quite a mix of components! I learned a bit in training that came as a small surprise but I wasn't shocked.

Here's the deal:

The frame is International's and most of the chassis components look like your typical systems and the braking system in both classes is all hydraulic - so no CDL!
The cab is all Mazda. If it looks like it is of Japanese design, it is and that was intentional because Ford/International(?) "benchmarked" the truck on the Isuzu cab over trucks. All of the body accessories are straight forward electrical and basic manual systems. Climate control with cables, power windows, door locks and lights that don't use a computer or module to operate.
The engine as you are aware is an International engine and is labeled as part of the Power Stroke family and with good reason. The 4.5L PSD is actually a 6.0L PSD with two less cylinders with some differences to the crank (offset journals) and cam (balance shaft added). Additional differences are the EGR valve and EGR controls and a new twin turbo set-up.
The transmission is the Ford Torqshift carried over from the Diesel F-Series trucks.
Axles by Dana.

My impression is that this is a decent truck intended to be low cost, easy and simple to maintain and operate. Almost everything looks easy to get at but I think it will take time to get used to the different diagnostic software and knowing which to use and with which diagnostic connector.

On Edit: I also learned that the Ford and International trucks are NOT identical and are NOT built in the same plant. There are differences.

Jim Warman · June 11, 2005

Just came back from a 6.0 update course. They had a 4.5 sitting in the classroom (where's my camera when I need it?). Neat little package....

Instructor alluded to the likelihood of this being the turbo configuration well see on the 6.4.

Keith Browning · June 12, 2005

Instructor alluded to the likelihood of this being the turbo configuration well see on the 6.4.

Jim I was told the same thing. Apparently Ford chose to use this system for its time tested reliability. I had some clown on the Blue Oval Forums insist that the twin turbo set up is unreliable. I don't see how. My opinion is that a simple diverter valve that switches exhaust gasses from one turbo to the other is far more reliable than a unison ring and vane set up. The only disadvantage I see is that the twins are not as smooth as a VGT particularly when it switches from the small turbo to the big one.

Jim Warman · June 12, 2005

Our instructor told us that it doesn't switch from one to the other (unless I misunderstood). Instead, the actuator would open and allow the second turbo to join the first.

I'd mentioned that I could see a host of problems in the transition period but he stated that it would act more like a wastegate with the dumped gasses going to run the second turbo in conjunction with the first.

To my feeble old thinkpot, this actually sounds like it could work!!

snw blue by you · July 13, 2005

Looking at the picture above leaves me with more questions than answers. How are they going to feed this thing exhaust gases in the current F-Series platform? Where is the fresh air intake and exhaust? Is there one wastegate for both turbos? I'll never see an LCF, hell I don't even see 650/750s which is fine, so my interest is in the F-series apps. I know this has already been figured out, but I'm dying to see it!

Keith Browning · July 13, 2005

Quote:

Looking at the picture above leaves me with more questions than answers. How are they going to feed this thing exhaust gases in the current F-Series platform?

They aren't and you won't ever see this engine in any other truck but the LCF. I was told that first off, this engine is wayyyyy too heavy for the light duty platform like the F150/250 trucks. There was a new engine being developed for that but has since been scrapped from what I was told. The 4.5L is basically a 6.0L with two less cylinders. The other notable changes are a split(?) journal crankshaft, a different camshaft to accommodate a balance shaft and the twin turbo set up.

The twins are sequential and share the ports with a diverter valve in the exhaust. At low RPM's the smaller turbo spools up quickly and then the diverter allows the larger turbo to get going. There is no wastegate but I can see the diverter being used to control boost. This will also be a cooled EGR engine with a Navistar style valve and separate slave module for the valve itself.

When I took the class on it I also learned that this thing will use the Navistar electronics and of course the Master diagnostics from the MD truck software on WDS. It's okay but it does not give you all the parameters that the Ford electronics does. However, the Torqshift transmission being used uses the same `ol WDS software!

snw blue by you · July 14, 2005

Keith, I'm sorry, I should have specified just the turbo setup on the upcoming 6.4L in the Super Duty.

I assume that this will be what they use, or something very similar.

Keith Browning · July 14, 2005

From what I was told and so were others that the 6.4L turbo set up will be similar. The LCF should start arriving at dealers very soon and I hope to get to drive one. I am particularly interested in how the twin turbo set up feels because I don't think that twins can be as smooth as a VGT. I think I remember that the choice for this was for reliability. We shall see.

mpatron · July 18, 2005

The guys from Detroit told us that the 6.4 should have the "series" (that's what I call it since the small one just feeds into the large one)turbo on it and that the base engine should be very similar...oh yeah, Econoline still has a diesel option for '07. The LCF vehicles were beginning delivery in June, if your shop had an LCF tech when deliveries were scheduled. I believe the next round of sign-ups for sellig LCF begins in October.

Keith Browning · August 13, 2005

I was in the last class for the LCF in the North East. The Instructor stated that the entire west side of the Country was done and he was doing another round of classes in North Carolina I think it was. Anyway, he commented on all of the dealers that procrastinated and were calling to get into classes. They missed out until the Fall. For those of you who are waiting to get into a course, ANY course, get on the waiting list. Do not wait for the course to show up on STARS. Ford wont even schedule a class until they have at least 10 students on the waiting list.