what i have heard through the grapevine

[Marc Schnell]

there is what i have heard about the 6.4

it will be twin turbo(i know this is already out there) one will be vgt controlled and one will be wastegate style, it will run off of high pressure fuel to operate the injectors, approx 30,000psi is the rumor, and the high pressure fuel pump will be located in the valley basically in the same location as the HPOP on the sick-0. it will have some sort of dual egr system, but i dont know the exact info on it. the cab bolts will come from the bottom to facilitate easier cab off repair, and they also have not figured out how to put it into an econoline, in its current configuration it will not fit, but you know they will not drop the desiel ambulance package, so who knows what kind of abortion it will end up being. this is about all i have heard, but i just thought i would post it in case anyone else had not heard this info.

[Keith Browning]

Marc, Welcome to the DTS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

 

 

I do have a disagreement with the following:

 

Quote:

it will be twin turbo(i know this is already out there) one will be VGT controlled and one will be waste gate style,

First, use the proper terminology is "Dual-Stage Turbocharger" also known as a regulated turbocharger. Since it basically does the same thing that a VGT does, I doubt that the dual-stage turbo would contain a VGT.

 

If you attended the LCF new model training you would be familiar with the set up and how it works. In fact, I was told by the training engineer that the dual-stage assembly was chosen over a VGT because of reliability and performance. We are to see a turbo assembly on the 6.4L PSD that is similar to what is currently being installed on the 4.5L Power Stroke. Having driven 4.5L LCF trucks I can say that the power and boost is smooth. Low-end boost is snappy and I felt that boost and acceleration was seamless throughout acceleration... but it's no 6.0L!

 

 

The fun part of all this is that most of us, techs, will not truly know until it's in production.

[gasgasman]

techs, will not truly know until it's in production.

Kinda like recalls, we find out on the 10 oclock news. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

[Torqued_Up]

No, our customers hear about recalls on the 10 oclock news. THEY tell us the next day and the phones just ring and ring and ring. Once again caught with our thumbs in our asses looking dumbfounded and clueless. Don't you love trying to answer questions you don't have any answers for? Aren't we supposed to be "the experts"???

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hitthefan.gif

 

Log onto the internet. At least you'll know what's what they are talking about since it seems avery damn owner owns a computer too!

 

 

Now to constructively add to the thread /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I think someone here mentioned that engineering was looking at cab removal for servicing. I think this might be the reason we haven't heard an official statement from Ford telling us not to raise cabs or that they do not endorse the practice.

[Fordtechnician]

A few things I heard.......Engine work / removal WILL have two seperate labor choices. Cab lift or over the fender. Acess to body bolts improved. Quick disconnects on the brake lines, etc. The reason for the two is some shops have no space or equipment to do a cab lift. Also some body applications prevent that. Second.....It is currently in Alaska doing cold weather testing. Third......A new generation pcm system. It WILL tell the technicion if some one has chipped/reprogrammed it or removed a chip.

I also spoke to a CAT tech and he said they had the twin turbo setup yrs ago. It had troubles for them. They are useing the VGT setup now and he was impressed with that.

[snw blue by you]

I think this might be the reason we haven't heard an official statement from Ford telling us not to raise cabs or that they do not endorse the practice.

 

Ed,

They have this neat picture at YTC that shows a cab off with the caption "Just don't do it!" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[gasgasman]

It WILL tell the technicion if some one has chipped/reprogrammed it or removed a chip.

Like it really matters.

Management will over-ride your findings anyway.

[Keith Browning]

They have this neat picture at YTC that shows a cab off with the caption "Just don't do it!"

I saw that there too! If I recall, it was the only thing on the bulletin board that week. I meant them to ask why but I forgot apparently.

[HGM]

Quote:

First, use the proper terminology is "Dual-Stage Turbocharger" also known as a regulated turbocharger. Since it basically does the same thing that a VGT does, I doubt that the dual-stage turbo would contain a VGT.

If you attended the LCF new model training you would be familiar with the set up and how it works. In fact, I was told by the training engineer that the dual-stage assembly was chosen over a VGT because of reliability and performance. We are to see a turbo assembly on the 6.4L PSD that is similar to what is currently being installed on the 4.5L Power Stroke. Having driven 4.5L LCF trucks I can say that the power and boost is smooth. Low-end boost is snappy and I felt that boost and acceleration was seamless throughout acceleration... but it's no 6.0L! [/QB]

Keith,
Sory, but I beleive this to be incorect...The pictures you have posted may show it if you were to manipulate it a bit. I wouldnt be too confident about VGT going away /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif , but it shouldnt be the disapointment you have seen with the current style. The ones I have seen are quite different than the LCF, but dual stage will still be the correct terminology.

[Keith Browning]

HGM, don't be sorry! IF you know something to be incorrect, by all means, speak up. As you can tell, many of us have heard bits and pieces of stories from different sources. I am quite sure that we technicians won't know anything definite until we either attend some kind of training or see the production engine in our service bays. I am sure these Forums will be quite lively then!

 

And since it's obvious that a few of you on the "inside" know what you have seen and have been told, I am sure that what you know is neither final or something you can really discuss at this time. This is understood and respected. I will say that I am having fun fishing for information! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

As for the turbo set up, what I was told made perfect sense to me. That turbo set up definitely looks like there ARE two turbos but I can't tell if either is a VGT and how they are arranged.

 

I feel like a cat at the end of a ball of string!

[HGM]

It's frustrating, not being able to elaberate. But I think you have a good idea of what is there,just a little different.. Right now,I've got a better felling about this engine overall.We'll see what '07 brings...

[Fordtechnician]

The bad part.......It is still derived out of a 6.0.

[Keith Browning]

New Rumor!

 

So I got a message on another board and though it makes no sense, stuff ike this always makes you stop and think especially with the recent news from Ford. Unless there is REALLY a lot of bad sentiment behind the scenes it doesn't even add up from the financial perspective. Developing a new engine is extremely costly and Ford already lost a bundle backing out of one engine venture with International in '01.

 

Quote:

I have been told (by a reliable source at Intl) that the entire agreement is bunked. 07's will definitely have the 6.0's for at least another year. Ford is working on their own diesel engine (and has been for about 2 years).

[snw blue by you]

New Rumor!

 

Quote:

I have been told (by a reliable source at Intl) that the entire agreement is bunked. 07's will definitely have the 6.0's for at least another year. Ford is working on their own diesel engine (and has been for about 2 years).

[gasgasman]

Isn't that an oxymoron-reliable and International?

[Keith Browning]

I thought that was funny too, all things considered. The funnier thing is that we really don't know any -more to be honest. I read another post where someone thought Ford was going to use a CAT engine, but let's not leave out all of those dreamers wanting for a Cummins in the Super Duty.

 

Imagine opening the hood of the 2007 Super Duty and reading MAZDA DIESEL on the cover. Heck, let's make it a Mazda Rotary Diesel. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif I dare somebody to start that rumor! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[Marc]

Why not! Gm went to the land of the rising sun why can ford:)

[cochran]

As far as the Econoline goes, all indications are that the 6.0L will continue to be used until the next major change in 2010. All other current 6.0L apps go to 6.4L for '07.

[Jim Warman]

Fresh back from school.... latest rumours. Cab lifts are indeed in.... The 6.4 is not being set back another year.... apparently the 6.0 can't be brought up to 07 emissions standards. The hard starting concerns have supposedly been addressed.

 

Film at 11 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[Kevin]

That's what I heard at school a couple weeks ago. 6.0 can't even meet fed standards and will be leaving. The cab lift is the only way to do any engine work.

 

The emissions concern was the reason for the 6.0 to be released when it was. Ford knew of all the problems before it's release (I found that out when I was at the proving grounds in AZ. You should see the stuff they put these things through). Hopefully the 6.4 will work.

 

I had also heard the 6.4 had been dynoed at around 750 lb/ft torque, although I don't think it'll be released that way.

[Kevin]

Imagine opening the hood of the 2007 Super Duty and reading MAZDA DIESEL on the cover. Heck, let's make it a Mazda Rotary Diesel. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif I dare somebody to start that rumor! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

How much money you got in your pocket? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[WGLR13MWZ]

Ford, nor International can not afford to put 6.0 Liters in the 2007 trucks. The EPA mandates that you must have an engine that puts out X amount of NOx. If it doesnt then you do not put out any engines. Theres no EPA credits to be used for the F series trucks. Unlike the E series trucks they will be using the 6.0 Liter untill 2009.

[dieseldoc]

Hey guys I am new to the forum. I am a truck engine tech for a cat dealer, as well as the tech that maintains our fleet of service trucks. We use series turbos on our 11 to 15 liter engines and it works great. We have very few turbo problems. We dont use vgt at all, just a simple waste-gate. Hopefully that is what ford will use. I dont know how they can expect something like vgt to be reliable.

[Jim Warman]

Rob... it's not reall a matter of what Ford "wants"..... On these little guys, it all boils down to what EPA says and whatever it takes to give good performance after that.

 

One of our ASSET apprentices drove a test mule in Calgary on his last trip to school.... VGT is alive...

[gasgasman]

It will be "game over" for Ford when Dodge phases in the Mercedes diesels in their light trucks.

DCX is ramping up their Detroit Diesel plant in MI for switch over.

 

FYI The '07 Power Strokes will have a "0" deductable powertrain warranty (5/100)