Source of fine aluminum particles

jimmy57 · August 20, 2013

I'm puzzled (obviously).

2006 F350 6.0 with 140K miles.

Started surging and running rough and stalled when owner stopped. It would crank over and would not run. No HP oil pressure build beyond about 200 psi when cranking at over 150 RPM.

Diagnosis was IPR and it was removed and had no screen damage or o ring damage but replacing it immediately took care of problem and test showed good performance. Comes back with one instance of no start for several attempts and then it cranks normal time and starts. Then it later has two instance of surging again and one stalls when coasting down to stop with several cranking attempts to get it to start.

I now know this: IPR is 25-26% with 585 psi idling, oil filter autopsy (looking for tappet metal) reveals fine aluminum particles down in pleats, engine oil pump is fine, engine oil pressure HOT idling is 25 psi but if I drive truck and get it to surge the engine oil pressure dips when IPR climbs and HP oil pressure drops out.

Now the question: does the HPOP have aluminum inside that could be my source of filings sticking IPR and making for increased duty cycle to get idle HP oil pressure from wear?

I can't think of anything else besides that and base engine oil pump where the aluminum could be coming from. The engine has no noise when running. I did look at but didn't remove relief valves in oil filter base and saw the brass piston has no side play.

Keith Browning · August 21, 2013

You are right, the HPOP has no aluminum that would end up in the oil. I would still suspect the oil pump - I am assuming that you removed the cover, measured the clearance bewheen the gears and then removed them to inspect the back of the cover? Also, did you remove the regulator and inspect it - looking for gouges and debris?

Otherwise, aluminum = pistons - front cover - rear cover - rocker boxes

GregH · August 27, 2013

Something else to consider - the high pressure system does not recieve oil from the oil filter. Engine oil that is filtered gets sent on to be lube oil throughout. The only filtering the high pressure oil gets is from that small screen (you know, the one with the torn out windows) under the oil cooler.

Still have to track down the source - but make sure before the vehicle is released that there is a new screen under the oil cooler.

jimmy57 · August 27, 2013

Thanks guys.

I got sidetracked for a week.

Yes, I will be tearing into the front cover and oil pump to see what is going on.

I have not seen aluminum in the oil and I was msking sure there was no hidden Al source.

And there will be a new in let screen if not whole oil cooler kit.

Bruce Amacker · August 28, 2013

Something else to consider - the high pressure system does not recieve oil from the oil filter. Engine oil that is filtered gets sent on to be lube oil throughout. The only filtering the high pressure oil gets is from that small screen (you know, the one with the torn out windows) under the oil cooler.

Are you sure about this? The oil schematic shows the reservoir gets filtered oil....

:grin:

Keith Browning · August 28, 2013

Interestingly, in looking at the oil flow skee-matic the oil pump feeds all oil directly through the oil cooler on it's way to the oil filter. However, oil in the reservoir is in fact filtered as Bruce stated.

lmorris · August 28, 2013

The description also states "Filtered oil is sent to the reservoir for the high pressure system." I was also under the impression it was unfiltered oil. So how does debris get in there? I have pulled oil coolers and found chunkies in the reservoir before..

Bruce Amacker · August 29, 2013

So how does debris get in there?

Auto mechanics 101- oil filters only work when the oil is warmed up, when the oil is cold virtually 100% of the oil goes through the bypass. I've been told the filter does virtually nothing below 140F EOT, that's why the screen is there......

:grin:

lmorris · August 29, 2013

I can honestly say I have never heard that before. Good to know. Thanks Bruce.

Matt Saunoras · August 30, 2013

I had a virgin 2010 6.0 ambulance not long ago that defintely never had an oil cooler yet the reservoir had collected a more than normal amount of debris. Even the new style steel screen was torn allowing some of that crap to pass into the high pressure oil system.

I wondered why for about 10 minutes then continued along. Anymore I always pull out the high pressure pump, reseal everything and blow out the passage.

jimmy57 · August 31, 2013

I dismantled the oil pump and removed oil pan. The OP gears have good tooth faces but sides are scored and the OP cavity and cover where sides of gears run are gouged and are almost assuredly my aluminum flake source. The two photos are of the piece stuck to drain plug magnet. The pan had some fine ferrous flakes that look to be part of what is in photos.

Anyone recognize the source of what is in the photos?