repeat concern p207f

[billy_o]

truck was in with engine light on p207f with force limit power in dash . replaced nox sensor update pcm , truck returned aprox. 200km later truck returned with same code further diag lead to replacing particular filter assembly cat. sent truck off with custumer and returned once again with same code and issue followed ppt . rd ka w . anyone have this issue just recurring p207f. poss. egr issue throwing nox sensor out of range , didn't seem to find any issue with air intake leaks .

[lmorris]

There is a sevice message stating Ford wants you to change the NOX sensor and module as a pair, and you are not to seperate the two when returning for warranty. We are guessing it's a pin fit issue. Changing both usually fixes the issue. Also, when you do any parameter reset on the SCR or particle filter systems, you need to keep the key off for 3 minutes after to allow for a proper reset or it won't do it and you will get a repeat code.

[gtech]

thanks for info lmorris , when we replaced nox sensor in nov. ssm wasn't out , we may replace them in a pair now pending what hotline comes back with.

[lmorris]

We had a few that had to have the SCR assembly replaced after numerous attempts to repair.

 

Try seperating the tailpipe from the SCR and have a look for any soot. They tend to set the code before you can see black tailpipes.

[lmorris]

Just got this little diddy from hotline when doing a prior approval for the SCR system replacement.

 

The P207F code and the Exhaust fluid message is a general message that is relating to the amount of Nox that is in the SCR system. When we have seen this type of concern it is rarely a concern with the DEF in the vehicle at all. The P207F code can set if we have any concern with the EGR or air management systems so we recommend going thru pin point test W and KA located in the online PC/ED manual to prove out these 2 systems do not have any concern.There have been issues with the EGR cooler being restricted with carbon. This causes the cooler to not be able to reduce the exhaust gasses correctly and the EGR will not be able to reduce the Nox levels correctly. The other thing that we see is the DEF mixer grate being covered in dried DEF crystals, so when the DEF is injected into the exhaust it cannot properly atomize to catch the Nox particles and reduce them.To inspect the DEF mixer grate we can remove the DEF injector and then use a bore O scope to look at the mixer grate. If there is dried DEF on the mixer grate then perform 3 manual Regens in a row to clean the mixer grate. If the grate cannot be cleaned then the exhaust will require replacement.To inspect the EGR cooler we will want to remove the EGR housing and inspect the EGR cooler core. If there is a carbon build up then replace the cooler core.Once any repairs are completed then we need to clear the MAF and Nox tables using the IDS. We have found that if once the Nox tables are cleared, if we leave the key off for 3 minutes that will make sure the tables are cleared correctly. If the concern is still present please update this form for further assistance. 

[tuff57]

Just got this little diddy from hotline when doing a prior approval for the SCR system replacement.

 

The P207F code and the Exhaust fluid message is a general message that is relating to the amount of Nox that is in the SCR system. When we have seen this type of concern it is rarely a concern with the DEF in the vehicle at all. The P207F code can set if we have any concern with the EGR or air management systems so we recommend going thru pin point test W and KA located in the online PC/ED manual to prove out these 2 systems do not have any concern.There have been issues with the EGR cooler being restricted with carbon. This causes the cooler to not be able to reduce the exhaust gasses correctly and the EGR will not be able to reduce the Nox levels correctly. The other thing that we see is the DEF mixer grate being covered in dried DEF crystals, so when the DEF is injected into the exhaust it cannot properly atomize to catch the Nox particles and reduce them.To inspect the DEF mixer grate we can remove the DEF injector and then use a bore O scope to look at the mixer grate. If there is dried DEF on the mixer grate then perform 3 manual Regens in a row to clean the mixer grate. If the grate cannot be cleaned then the exhaust will require replacement.To inspect the EGR cooler we will want to remove the EGR housing and inspect the EGR cooler core. If there is a carbon build up then replace the cooler core.Once any repairs are completed then we need to clear the MAF and Nox tables using the IDS. We have found that if once the Nox tables are cleared, if we leave the key off for 3 minutes that will make sure the tables are cleared correctly. If the concern is still present please update this form for further assistance. 

 

Thank you for this, been having an ambush of p207f codes in our fleet (we just received a bunch of 2013 6.7) and they all are coming in with this code.

[forddieseldoctor]

I got one right now that's waiting for our local FSE to show up. 2012 with 14,000 miles. Came in back in May, put the nox sensor in and did the reflash per the TSB, drove it till the XX miles to speed limited message cleared. 900 miles later it came back sometime around the 12th of July. Performed pinpoint test, dosing test passes with flying colors, egr test shows 2 g/s change and the egrt11 changes about 150* when the bypass valve is cycled. Got to the step where it says to replace the nox sensor, contacted hotline. They told me to put another nox sensor in it and do all the resets again. Guy needed the truck and we didn't have a sensor so I cleared everything out and managed to get the 50 mph speed limit to go away, guy took it camping and brought it in a week later for the sensor. Replaced the sensor, cleared the nox table, performed the manual regen and did the scr drive cycle. The nox monitor pid changed to yes and I released it to the customer. 3 days and just shy of 100 miles it comes in on the hook, idle only exhaust fault. Next step is replace the dpf assembly. Case got escalated. Hotline called me and verified all of my test results and gave me prior approval for a dpf. Monday I put that in, Reset everything that the pced and hotline told me to, managed to get it out of idle only, performed the scr drive cycle and the nox monitor pid changed to yes. Drove it about 10 extra miles, reran the self test, system pass. Service manager released it to the customer. Showed up to work this morning and there it sits in the parking lot with and idle only exhaust fluid fault. Reran the dosing test, verified that the def was not contaminated or diluted, or as good as I can without proper test equipment. We do all the maintenance on it and fill his def.

 

To say the least I'm stumped on this truck.

[mchan68]

I got one right now that's waiting for our local FSE to show up. 2012 with 14,000 miles. Came in back in May, put the nox sensor in and did the reflash per the TSB, drove it till the XX miles to speed limited message cleared. 900 miles later it came back sometime around the 12th of July. Performed pinpoint test, dosing test passes with flying colors, egr test shows 2 g/s change and the egrt11 changes about 150* when the bypass valve is cycled. Got to the step where it says to replace the nox sensor, contacted hotline. They told me to put another nox sensor in it and do all the resets again. Guy needed the truck and we didn't have a sensor so I cleared everything out and managed to get the 50 mph speed limit to go away, guy took it camping and brought it in a week later for the sensor. Replaced the sensor, cleared the nox table, performed the manual regen and did the scr drive cycle. The nox monitor pid changed to yes and I released it to the customer. 3 days and just shy of 100 miles it comes in on the hook, idle only exhaust fault. Next step is replace the dpf assembly. Case got escalated. Hotline called me and verified all of my test results and gave me prior approval for a dpf. Monday I put that in, Reset everything that the pced and hotline told me to, managed to get it out of idle only, performed the scr drive cycle and the nox monitor pid changed to yes. Drove it about 10 extra miles, reran the self test, system pass. Service manager released it to the customer. Showed up to work this morning and there it sits in the parking lot with and idle only exhaust fluid fault. Reran the dosing test, verified that the def was not contaminated or diluted, or as good as I can without proper test equipment. We do all the maintenance on it and fill his def.

 

To say the least I'm stumped on this truck.

Any update on this? I got a '14 now with 29000 kms. on the clock with this fault by itself? I have an NOx 1_2 on order.

[sneakypete]

working on a 2012 f250 with 170,000 km's. p207f set. started diag. scr dosing test passed properly. inspected the grate with a borescope. no restrictions. inspected the back of the dpf. no cracking found but had some soot. this is my first one so I'm not sure what too much soot would look like. performed pin point test RD, RK AND W. haven't removed the egr cover to inspect. so my question is what are you guys still finding on these? has anyone had an egr cooler restriction causing this? I'm leaning towards an scr but would like to be sure. if scr is replaced should the nox sensor and module also be replaced. just wondering what you guys are finding in the field. my testing has come up empty handed.

[forddieseldoctor]

 

I got one right now that's waiting for our local FSE to show up. 2012 with 14,000 miles. Came in back in May, put the nox sensor in and did the reflash per the TSB, drove it till the XX miles to speed limited message cleared. 900 miles later it came back sometime around the 12th of July. Performed pinpoint test, dosing test passes with flying colors, egr test shows 2 g/s change and the egrt11 changes about 150* when the bypass valve is cycled. Got to the step where it says to replace the nox sensor, contacted hotline. They told me to put another nox sensor in it and do all the resets again. Guy needed the truck and we didn't have a sensor so I cleared everything out and managed to get the 50 mph speed limit to go away, guy took it camping and brought it in a week later for the sensor. Replaced the sensor, cleared the nox table, performed the manual regen and did the scr drive cycle. The nox monitor pid changed to yes and I released it to the customer. 3 days and just shy of 100 miles it comes in on the hook, idle only exhaust fault. Next step is replace the dpf assembly. Case got escalated. Hotline called me and verified all of my test results and gave me prior approval for a dpf. Monday I put that in, Reset everything that the pced and hotline told me to, managed to get it out of idle only, performed the scr drive cycle and the nox monitor pid changed to yes. Drove it about 10 extra miles, reran the self test, system pass. Service manager released it to the customer. Showed up to work this morning and there it sits in the parking lot with and idle only exhaust fluid fault. Reran the dosing test, verified that the def was not contaminated or diluted, or as good as I can without proper test equipment. We do all the maintenance on it and fill his def.

 

To say the least I'm stumped on this truck.

Any update on this? I got a '14 now with 29000 kms. on the clock with this fault by itself? I have an NOx 1_2 on order.

 

 

It went from bad to worse. Local FSE was on vacation. I had a different one call me and he ended up having me throw parts at it (including a dpf) till it was fixed. I think the nox module and the maf sensor they had me put in was the fix. I don't think it reset right when I reset all of the tables cause it took almost 3 times as long for the nox monitor to run. The next thing they had me change was the def fluid since we didn't have a tester available. I reset it and drove it and the code never came back. I bought a def refractometer and tested the def I took out and it tested good.

 

The egr cooler flow test passed with flying colors on mine. But Ford told me that a plugged or restricted egr cooler will cause the code that was I was having.

[mchan68]

I have one right now, a '12 with 96000 kms. on the clock setting P207F by itself. This one already had an NOx sensor replaced at 69000 kms. 14E03 has already been done. Vehicle came in, in engine idle only de-rate mode. Dosing test passed. Reset the SCR system and cleared P207F. Then re-ran a KOER self-test just for s's and g's. It set a P2457 on-demand (but no P0401 in memory). Just wondering if any of you have ever repaired this successfully with an EGR cooler replacement, that didn't set either P0401 or P2457 in memory like this one?

[Steve Mutter]

Cooler will not fix it but still probably needs a core , power brake at wot and check for black smoke out the tail pipe. If it blows black you will need and scr/dpf.

[lmorris]

Have one here, originally it had P220D, nox12 heater performance, ended up replacing NOX12 and let it go. 2 days later it comes back in with P207F with Engine Idled message in dash, PPT gets me to replacing NOX12, manual regen, selective catalyst reset and a road test. Thinking I may have missed a step in reseting things the last time I thought I would try again before condemning the sensor I just replaced. We currently don't have any NOX sensors in stock, so I ordered both for the hell of it. Here is my dilemma, it won't clear the P207F with out doing the selective catalyst road test procedure, I can't road test it because it won't come out of idle only, I can't perform the Exhaust fluid system fault procedure to clear the engine idle message because of the P207F. It is at the latest calibration, and the typical procedure to get EGT's up to temp and let idle didn't work either. Any thoughts? I thought the PCM update was supposed to fix the "Stuck in idle" issue?

[lmorris]

So...in the end, I ended up having to replace the PCM on this one.

[Matt Saunoras]

When the 2014 "stuck in idle only" issue first started I had a few trucks that needed PCMs.  Then they came out with the procedure to clear the message and I still couldn't get it to work.  Replaced a few pcms about a year ago and haven't seen any with that message since.

[2006]

I have a P207F right now on a 2015. It was in forced idle. I followed the fault procedure and got out of the forced idle mode. Doing PPT RD. Dosing and DEF are good. I've replaced NOX11 and NOX12 so far and reset both sensors.

There is no hard faults but the P207F is in continuous codes and I can't clear it even after a drive cycle. Theres no MIL or fault messages on the cluster.

 

This SSM comes up:

 

SSM 45187 - 2015-2016 F-Super Duty Vehicles Equipped With 6.7L Diesel - Diagnostic Trouble Codes That Cannot Clear When Using A ScanToolWhen servicing 2015-2016 F-Super Duty vehicles equipped with 6.7L diesel engine, they may exhibit a MIL On with DTCs:P218F, P123E, P123F, P22A2, P2204, P207F, P204E, P2085, P204F, P202E, P130E, P203E, and P205E, that remain present after repairing/attempting to clear fault DTCs,using a scan tool. These DTCs cannot be cleared with a scan tool. Note: After fixing the root concern for the identifiedMIL DTCs, if any of these DTCs have status flags of: -08,-18,-48,-58 and -68. You may proceed to clear any accompanying DEF Fluid System Fault messages in Instrument Panel Cluster(IPC). Use Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) System Procedures in PC/ED Manual Section 2, for correct drive cycles to clear DEF System Fault messages. If MIL is no longer On and DEF Fluid System Fault messages are no longer present, no further repairs are needed.

 

I don't really know what this means and how it the code is supposed to clear. 

On a drive cycle, the NOX EVAL changes from NO to YES. Doesn't that mean the system is working correctly?

If I can't clear it with the IDS, is it supposed to clear by itself during a successful drive cycle? I have authorization to replace the the SCR next, but somehow I think I'm missing something. 

[lmorris]

How did you get it out of forced idle with P207F in memory? That is what screwed me, and hotline told me the fault procedure will only work if no codes are present. Try checking the EGR system as well, only because the truck came back needing an EGR valve a week later. One other thing they told me to try was to disconnect both batteries and hold pos and neg cables together for 5 minutes to drain all modules. Didn't work for me but it may work for you.

[2006]

To get it out of idle mode only, I followed TSB 14-0192. The same procedure is also in the PCED. Follow it exactly as it says. I had to do it 3 times before I got it right. This is with the P207F in memory.

 

I'm going to wait for the new SCR to come in because hotline said to do that next.

 

One thing I didn't do, when resetting the NOX sensors, I didn't wait the 3 minutes with the key off. I'll try that again after replacing the exhaust.

[mchan68]

Well, the vehicle referenced in post #8 is now back with 61414 kms. with a P207F that clears, but I can't get the Exhaust Fluid System fault to clear, after replacing NOx 1 and NOx 2. Here's the Hotline Cotact so far:

 

Hotline Assistance Request 109300913

 

   

Contact Date: Oct 30 2015 16:54:52 Technician: Michael Chan   VIN: 1FT7X2BT4EEA39553 P&A Code: A1078   R. O. Number: 180041 Vehicle: F-SERIES

Description of Vehicle Concern:
Check Engine light on. Exhaust Fluid system fault warning appearing in message center.
 

Please list any diagnostics already performed:
IDS test. Retrieved DTC P207F by itself. Ran pinpoint tests 'RD' and 'RK' as directed. Dosing test reveals 75 psi tank pressure and duty cycle at around 25%. Fluid sample is clear and not contaminated. The owner of this vehicle has FMPP and has had all maintenance done at our dealer, including DEF refills so any issue with the DEF itself is ruled out. This vehicle has also had the EGR cooler replaced, along with some extensive repairs to repair a stubborn EGT 1_4 fault and false DPF overloaded message appearing in the cluster right after the 14E03 update on March 5th, 2015 at 45492 kms. See Hotline contact ID# 108 427 358 for details.
 

Parts Replaced:
Just replaced NOx 1_1 and 1_2 sensors as part of pinpoint tests 'RD' and 'RK'.
 

Your Question:
I was able to get P207F to clear, but unable to reset the exhaust fluid system fault. I have attempted to follow the procedure outlined in the PC/ED Section 2 under drive cycle. I was able to access AAT, EGT 1_1, EGT 1_2, EGT 1_3, EGT 1_4 and RPM PIDs. I was unable to locate or access REDUCT_INJ_DC, REDUCT_TNK_P and REDUCT_T PIDs. What is the suggested next step? It appears there have several of these trucks setting P207F that have ended up having the exhaust system replaced in an unsuccessful repair attempt, along with cases escalated.
 

  DTC: P207F  PCM  -     

Additional Comments

Comment From: Ford  Comment Date: Oct 30 2015 17:53:09
Michael,

If the vehicle is not able to access the PIDs specified in the Online PC/ED Section 2 Drive Cycles, it may be recommended to reprogram the PCM as this is an indication that there may be a concern within the Calibration.

Refer to the process located on Page 9 and 10 of the Module Programming and Reprogramming Job Aid located in the online PTS Service Tips Tab for the vehicle. This PCM update is outlined in TSB 14-0192.

Once the PCM is restored, attempt to access the PIDs and once again perform the Exhaust Fluid System Fault Procedures located in the PC/ED Section 2 - Drive Cycles and the TSB.

Note that it may be helpful to indicate the use of the vehicle along with the Engine Hours and the Engine Idle Hours. The setting of the P207F DTC can be affected by long period of idle time which can lead to buildup of materials within the Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) and the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). These deposits may affect the air flow across the NOx sensors and the entire system itself.

When trying to clear the P207F DTC it is necessary to ensure that the Reductant Tank Level (REDUCT_TNK_LVL) PID reading is 100%. If necessary top off the tank and run the SCR Refill Activation from the IDS.

Be sure that the ambient temperature is higher than -5°C when the testing is being performed.

In many vehicles it is necessary to allow the vehicle to rest for a period longer than 6 hours to allow the engine systems to fully cool. Once cool the OODBII testing will rerun and this will allow the SCR System to self-test. Once the PCM sees the Self-Test passing it will remove the Forced Idle condition. If it cannot, it should reset the P207F DTC or others.

If the vehicle resets the P207F DTC either during the Drive Cycles Testing, or shortly after the vehicle is returned to the customer, it would be recommended to continue with PPT RD11. If the P207F DTC or P20EE DTCs return after the Manual Regeneration, then it would be recommended to replace the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) as per PPT RD12 and proceed to PPT RD13. 

​

 

 

[mchan68]

This vehicle is already at the latest calibration level (I checked). So what's my next step on Monday with this one? I already borescoped inside the exhaust while I had the injector out running the dosing test, which passed. Am I going to be replacing the exhaust system?

[Matt Saunoras]

Mike try datalogging pids under Modules, then PCM.  Not by choosing powertrain, Exhaust or SCR.  This may let you monitor EGT and Reductant pids at the same time.

[lmorris]

Mike try datalogging pids under Modules, then PCM.  Not by choosing powertrain, Exhaust or SCR.  This may let you monitor EGT and Reductant pids at the same time.

That does work Matt. Thanks.

[mchan68]

Yes, thanks Matt. I just went through this process a second time around unable to clear the exhaust fault. Now Hotline wants me to do a manual regen which I can't, since it was brought to us with less than an eighth of a tank. Yeah me!

[lmorris]

I am still working with our warranty clerk to get paid for all the MT bullshit on mine. Nothing makes those guys happy.

[OHNO60]

Same here P0207F on 2012 F350 chassis cab. Mine was a turbocharger passing oil into the exhaust stream at such a small rate that it never smoked, but coated the SCR brick with oil preventing the DEF from reacting completely.  We replaced the DPF/SCR torpedo and it never failed again.  None the less in the interim a NOx sensor and module were replaced, EGR cooler was coked tighter than a crabs A!#, calibration updates. Very discouraging, especially when the freeze frame lacks the essentials for diag.