Keith Browning Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Since the thread was lost (sorry Jim) I thought I might stoke it up again as I thought it was good. I was reminded of Jim Warman's post about training because my company's managers held us at lunch over some pizza setting our goals for the year. Training was high on their list. It was essentially abandoned for well over a year. I also have two guys working with me in our truck shop who really have no Ford training at all. I recommended that they start with as many of the on-line courses they can get done. I ran through the new diesel courses last year and thought that they were outstanding and clearly presented. In fact, it might be a good idea for us "experts" to do them again for a refresher. I find that helps every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Keith, I may have a little different way of looking at things right now, but I have my reasons... I do completely agree with you too.... I have never been to a class or taken a course that I didnt get something out of.. As a flat rate tech, we get in the habbit of making quick decisions(right or wrong).. The better we understand how something works, the easier, and more right those decisions tend to be, alowing us to make more money and fix more vehicles corectly... It gets under my skin a bit when someone blasts training as being unnecessary because it shows that they either think they know it all or are far too complacent at becoming stagnent.. Perfect example was the 6.0L, although its because the knowledge wasnt there to be had...Ford couldnt provide it because the problems didn start until the trucks were in real world situations... Training on this engine was slow coming about, you guys had to handle the brunt of that and teach yourself... It was tuff... Although learning from hard knocks stays with you a little better, it can wear you out.. Wish we all could have been better prepared before hand.. Unfortunatly that wasnt the case.. When the day comes that I feel I know it all, I'll be getting out of the bussiness because I'll know I lost touch.... Thats just ignorant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Training is nearly untangible.... we train ourselves on nearly every job we get.... this includes reinforcing test routines, seeing something we never saw before and just realizing that no matter how much we think we know, we will never know everything... I'm currently in Edmonton taking the basic auto tran course. I'm working on transmissions that I wont work on in real life. Still, the lessons learned are invaluable. Something our instructors in Canada focus on in depth are "inappropriate procedures" outlined in the manuals..... When we set out to perform a test, we need to decide if the test we are told to perform will deliver the results we desire. I was once a young man.... I felt that I didn't need to understand how something worked in order to fix it.... what could be simpler.... broken is broken. Now, more than ever, we need to pay attention to not only what we are being taught, but the underlying message.... With the complexity of todays machines, we desparately need to reproduce the concern, measure what is happening when the concern exists and form an opinion of what condition(s) we expect to find when we get into our "exploratory surgery". Ford puffs me up with little rewards for taking courses... my DP puffs me up with rewards for training... whether I actually learn anything or not is entirely up to me... The bottom line is that this is what I do to earn money. Why wouldn't I strive to be the best I can be? There are things to be learned in each and every course..... we only need to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-D Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Before my last message was lost (what ever that means) you guys were straightening me out like a punk kid and i guess ideserved that. You guys are right that judging the ford system by looking at one tech is the wrong way to look at it. I am beginning to see that even with training it's not always easy to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Fords training isn't a good example of step by step procedures.... Where it excels is in (hopefully) teaching us to see what we are testing in a different light than written... If we are performing an electrical test, we are taught (in Canada, anyway) to view the test requirements and decide if the published method is appropriate for the test... if we blindly follow the manual we may be disappointed. I just finished a transmission course that has little to do with what I work on.... but I managed to learn a lot.... How I should look to other model year manuals when the pertinent manual leaves me wanting for information.... Basic things I should do above and beyond what the manual tells me. We will only ever get in return if we look hard for the return. My work group (three techs) included two techs that couldn't read a depth micrometer... Ford made out like Jack The Bear. If we didn't complete a task, I couldn't go for a smoke-break... I taught those guys how to read the mike... These two thought they were Gods gift to auto repair and the last thing they expected was for the old dork to teach them something they should have known long before setting foot in the classroom. I've been doing this sort of stuff since about 1967..... If I come across a day where I look back and decide that I didn't learn anything new, I will call that day a failure. We will never and can never "know everything there is to know"..... if we pretend to the throne, we will set ourselves up for disappointment. This is my chosen career... I practice the art of auto repair. Others view this as a "job" and pray to God that they never get anything harder than a brake reline..... I was young once... as I recall, I knew everything back then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Well put Jim, The way I refer to the book is, it is simply a coleague. Its another tech I can refer to for guidence. Its all up to interpritation, meaning if you dont use the stuff between your ears to make it make sense, you're lost anyhow.. The PCED and Shop Manual are directions on how to get somewhere, you still need to understang the system and how it works to efficiently use the books for diagnostic purposes. This is where the class' help, even web based courses can assist here. The problem with them is that we are "touchy feely" creatures. If we cant put our hands on it, sometimes it doesnt make sense. One thinng with the class' is that its up to each tech to bring real world experience to the class and the instructor needs to be able to help understand why things work like they do by explaining the real world stuff.. This way we all learn at the same time.. Class' are priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The instructor we usually get likes to have us use manuals that SPECs (Service Publication Error Correction) hasn't fixed. Sometimes he'll tell us we're the bad step(s) exist and other times he leaves us to figure it out ourselves for a while. It keeps us on our toes and adds a bit of fun to the equation. Interacting with techs from other dealer is great to...especially when we get to put a face to the names we see on the message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Hope you put a plug in for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Well, back into my viscious circle.... thank God it's nearly over. Last week was auto transmissions. Next week tranxaxles and two weeks after that rear wheel drive transmissions. After that, all that's left is CVT and my plaque will be full. That will be just three years to go from "grunt" to having everything.... that our DP is willing to pump this kind of money into training a guy my age (I'm only 29 but I have nearly 27 years of experience at it) and seeing that the other two Master Techs in the shop took nearly ten years to accomplish the same has left some raw nerves. FWIW, when I went to school, I was hoping that one of the young lions would get my 550 planetary recall... they often complain that I get a lot of gravy since I have a big hoist. Once they saw the PTO and pump, they declined. Anyway, this trans is a FQR with about 20,000 kms on it.... I found definite signs of overheating in both the intermediate and revese clutch packs... just thought I'd pass that along.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Congrats on the training success. If only every dealer invested in it's people like that things might be different. Burnt clutches? How unusual. An overheated trans in a vocational vehicle? Big snow forecast for the eastern states this weekend? I guess we will find out who has been putting off having 05B27 performed on their trucks! If it does snow a lot, I'm not going to want Monday to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-D Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Thanx for the words of wisdom guys I got my stars id today. its only going to appen if make it happen i was trying to get in with my soc. sec. number but they changed it. I started the course on turbochargers and wow! this is not what i expected at all. this training on the computer is awsome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The best part is you can do it at your own speed at home..They take some time, but definitly will help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 JayD... check with you SM or Training Co-ordinator. *Some* dealers will pay per WBT course - our shop is two hours at your pay level for each WBT (web based training). Also.... to attain certification in any specialty, you will first need the electrical specialty (34, IIRC) so I would recommened spending some time on courses that are a prerequisite to classroom time for this specialty. Good luck with your new adventure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srashawn Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I would like to have any info out there for web based training or class room time. are they offered only through ford. we have funds for training but most of the schools we get to go to are for heavy equiptment.our fleet is getting more 6.0's in our smaller stuff.i think i have dominated our other problem child the ford f150 4.2.i thought it would be a while before i had to work on our f350 4x4 6.0 due to them being under warranty but they are already pass the miles.we had one hit 36100 miles and had to put new ball joints on it.but the airforce is buying more of them and not offering us training on them .thanks if anyone can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Shawn, I guess it's no surprise Uncle Sam would expect you to know how to care for "our" equipment without any training or resources. Some of our members here are, or were in Iraq with little training, documentation or special tools. You can get on-line training from Ford at the Motorcraft web site. It looks like they have a complete list of courses like the ones available to Ford technicians. I do not know if they are the same but I would say they are exactly what you want. All courses are $39.95 each. Go check it out. If you do any of them, please report to us what you think of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Also, You can contact Fords Technical Service Manager.. You can get into Ford class' as a fleet if you sign up for the package deal including web based class'.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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