2009 F-150 5.4 3v phaser bolt loose

batmantech · February 14, 2014

This 09 came in tow from another indy shop. Cranks no start. Found right hand cam not moving, phaser turning ,pin inside broken and damaged the cam. Cam caps look good. Oil had loads of moisture milky, actual water ran out when I cracked the drain plug open. Outside temps have been around and below 0 degrees for weeks, suspect that this thing was never warmed up and froze.

Wondering if anyone has seen this issue before. Basically trying to cover myself. Owner is relative of the new service writer here and just recently bought it, he keeps looking at me funny when I tell him it needs a new engine. Having hard time thinking a new phaser and cam is the answer here.

Any Ideas?

Brad Clayton · February 14, 2014

Interference engine, no need to plead your case any further to the owner. Engine rotating + cam not rotating = mangled parts deep inside.

batmantech · February 14, 2014

I tried to tell people here that but I could not find that in the shop manual. I just got back my hotline response that it is not a free wheeling engine now they believe me.

Brad Clayton · February 15, 2014

NOTICE: The camshaft procedure must be followed exactly or damage to the valves and pistons will result.

This is from the shop manual under camshaft R&R. This is as close as I could find to Ford saying "interference" without saying "interference".

Show them these photos of a 2 valve that was only 3 teeth out of time, that'll shut em up.

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/topic/3316-the-perfect-storm/

Jim Warman · February 15, 2014

Used to be a rule of thumb on OHC Fords - timing belt = OK - timing chain = bring yer wallet. Now... a 5 year old pick up. How much is it worth? About as much as a rebuilt motor? Often I get a chuckle when someone puts 5 grand into a clunker and that makes it worth almost 4 grand.

Brad Clayton · February 16, 2014

ROFL

YukonTyler · February 16, 2014

Last year I had a 3v 5.4 come in with a complaint of 'running rough'. Fire it up and sure enough it is not well. Check engine light is on - scan and find codes for bank 1 cam sensor. Pulled the sensor and found a big ball of copper at the tip. Pulled the r/front valve cover and found the chain, chunks of a guide and the phaser all piled up. The bolt for that phaser was nowhere to be found.

The darn thing drove in on one bank which I thought was pretty impressive. I quoted an engine, it got towed away and I never saw it again.

batmantech · February 17, 2014

Jim that is the rule of thumb that I generally stick with also. Needed something in print to satisfy some people.

Those repairs to add up big numbers fast.

cbriggs · March 7, 2014

I recently had a 2010 5.4l f-150 come in, super low mileage, around 20,000km if I remember right. It was stalling and surging, had cam timing codes and bank 1 vct err pid was steady at -45`. I was able to command vct and correct the timing, so I knew vct was operating, narrowed it down to base timing. It also had super milky oil, and about 3/4L of water came out of the plug before the oil when I drained it. Tore it down and found the vct phaser had turned slightly on the end of the cam and half torn the lineup pin thru the vct phaser itself. There was also evidence of the same failure on the lh cam and phaser, but not bad enough to flag timing codes yet. The phaser bolts were tight, but both phasers fell to pieces when I unbolted them from the cams. The cam journals in the heads were perfect, but all the cam lobes and roller followers were scored. When the concern happened it was about -30`c out, he said he fired it up, it had a hard time starting, then when it did after running for around 15 seconds the low oil pressure warning came up on the dash. He shut it off, restarted it 5 minutes later and it was running rough. My theory is that all the moisture in the oil froze the roller follower bearings, and when started the power needed to drive the cams nearly tore the phasers off. I think the oil was so frozen that the oil pump was unable to pull oil from the pan hence the low oil pressure light. 2 cams, phasers, all roller followers and timing chain tensioners and it is perfect.

I know the customer personally, he drives the truck 2 kms, twice a day to his hardware store and back home, and that is it. He now drives the truck for a 40km journey once a week and changes his oil every 3 months...