Help.....Repeat injector failure......

[BigWalt]

2006 F550repeat injector failure on bank 1.

In no random order, Injector 1,3,5,& 7 was replaced by other tech within 5 months.

 

Now the truck is back with cyl 1 dropping.relative compression test is even, fuel pressure is good. IPR 22%, fuel sample is clean, pump and tank was replaced by me ( 15 months ago). I doubt very much that the wave oil rail is to blamed, I am thinking injector cup or cylinder  head. I have not got into any depth diagnosis yet.

 

Anybody got similar situation?

[Aaron]

Missing all the time, cold, or under load?

 

Compression in the rail at all?

 

Good maintenance history? Possible shitty fuel previously?

 

How quick did it eat the #1 injector? It's a 550, how many hours are on it?

[BigWalt]

I don't recall how many hours but I know this got 87k miles.Truck looks like new and owner took great care. Excellent maint record......gotta give this guy a medal for it.No aftermarket tuner or whatever.

Little over one year ago I replaced fuel tank, pump, flushed lines and new filters, this time fuel sample is good, no debris or water.Misfiring under load, random misfiring at idle, ...does not matter if engine is hot or cold.I looked at history, always on bank one, not bank two.Last injector replaced was Jan 2014. 

[Aaron]

#1 was replaced in January?

 

I have a friend that had some debris in two or three injectors in a row between December and February. Call hotline and mention this, I believe it was hotline that told him about this. There was little bits of metal in the inlet port. (FoMoCo parts)

[Steve Mutter]

If they are aftermarket fuel injectors that's your problem. I have had no luck with aftermarket injectors, they don't seem to last.

[BigWalt]

Ford injectors only.Yes, cyl 1 injector was replaced this past January 2014. 

 

 

overall, cyl 1 got replacement injector 4 times........................ cyl 3 =2 times...................... cyl 5 = 3 times,............. cyl 7= 3 times.

 

Always on bank 1 not bank 2.

[Matt Saunoras]

Banjo bolt?

[BigWalt]

Banjo bolt  ???

[Keith Browning]

The fuel supply line bolt in the head that contains the check valve... Ford recommends replacing them any time combustion gasses enter the fuel rail.

[BigWalt]

oooh ok...brain fart here... need more of these >

[Keith Browning]

Did we ever come up with a root cause for this one yet?

 

I have a 2006 F550 with the same problem after installing a complte remanufactured engine assembly. This is the third time it has come back for mistiring on bank one. I have only replaced all injectors once at this point however today #5 is gone again. I closely inspected the bores and the injectors and could not find anything abnormal aboiut them. (this is the truck that seemed to have excessive loctite around the injector cups but engineering says this should not have been an issue. The borese were cleaned up well at the time of the last repair that included injector #5.

 

I never had an issue with combustion gasses entering the fuel rail therefore I have not replaced the banjo bolt. I am this time however because you don't know if it is a new part or an old part that had been previously subjected to problems.

 

I am getting tired of fixing remanufactured engines.

[Matt Saunoras]

Take a look at the banjo bolt closely Keith. I found a banjo bolt in the last reman complete I tore down that did not look like any one I've ever seen before. I replaced it anyways and it should be laying around here somewhere. If I can find it I'll snap a pic.

[BigWalt]

This job was given to other tech because at the time I was swamped with engine replacement.

 

All I know he replaced number 1 and 3 injectors and banjo bolt on passenger side.Truck runs excellent but I have no idea if it is fixed for good.Matt, please do posted pictures of banjo bolt, I like to see it.

[Keith Browning]

I assumed that everyone here knew what these were and what the need to know about them is. Here is a (lousy) picture of the fuel line check valve from a 6.0L engine. The check valve is intended to prevent puel rail pulsations from affectiong the other cylinder bank.

 

A 6.4L engine has similar banjo bolts at the same location however on that engine the fuel rail in the head is fuel return and therefore no check valve. The banjo bolts without the check valve have a painted green dot on them. Do not mix them up

 

The subject is the check valve can be damaged and create a restriction and low fuel pressure at the cylinder head. I suspect this is what has happened.

 

[Matt Saunoras]

I cannot find the mystery check valve I pulled out of the last reman engine. I'll keep my eyes open for it but its not looking good

[forddieseldoctor]

I assumed that everyone here knew what these were and what the need to know about them is. Here is a (lousy) picture of the fuel line check valve from a 6.0L engine. The check valve is intended to prevent puel rail pulsations from affectiong the other cylinder bank.

 

A 6.4L engine has similar banjo bolts at the same location however on that engine the fuel rail in the head is fuel return and therefore no check valve. The banjo bolts without the check valve have a painted green dot on them. Do not mix them up

 

The subject is the check valve can be damaged and create a restriction and low fuel pressure at the cylinder head. I suspect this is what has happened.

 

checkvalve.jpg

There's people who are yanking out the check valve banjo bolts and putting the 6.4 bolts on their 6.0's. I was not aware that they should be replaced when you have combustion gas in the fuel rails.

[garyb]

was unaware of this info as well,

[BigWalt]

well, the banjo bolt did not fixed.

truck is back with #3 misfiring.

tech called hotline and they told him to replaced wavy oil rail.

I do not think it is wavy oil rail, I think it is fuel related.

 

Anyway, there was a picture of bench testing oil rail and injectors. I could not find it, does anybody know what I am talking about, if yes then please post a link.

[Matt Saunoras]

Any chance it could be a high pressure pump starting to come apart internally.  Injectors don't like metal in the oil.  It wouldn't directly explain why only one bank is affected but its a thought

[BigWalt]

List below was done between 2012 and January 2014.Fuel tank replaced.

HZFP replacedfuel filters replaced.

HPOP replaced.

dummy plugs replaced.

fuel pressure regulator spring kit installed.

EGR and Oil cooler replaced.

couple injectors on passenger side.List below was done in few days ago.Injector #1& #5.banjo plug on passenger side head.

[batmantech]

You would think that it being only bank 1 that would be fuel related. What if you install a fuel pressure gauge, and leave it in, let customer watch it maybe it randomly goes low. (just an idea)

[2006]

I don't know if its possible on a truck, but I would try checking the fuel pressure at the plug at rear of the head, similar to the way you check it on an Econoline, with the Ford fuel pressure tester. Maybe the fuel line has a kink after the engine replacement, or a restriction in it.

[amailloux]

Good thought. I've seen that line be pretty mangled after the intake has been off. Replaced 1 for almost rubbing through last cooler job.

[Matt Saunoras]

That is an excellent tip, definitely filing that one away to save my ass later on.  The 6.0 feed lines are very small diameter, it wouldn't take much to collapse one.

 

On a related note I did find that weird banjo bolt I was talking about.  Gave up looking for it and it showed up, where else but my diesel drawer.   pics tomorrow if I remember

[Matt Saunoras]

I can't get a good pic of it but it looks quite a bit different from the banjo bolts we're used to seeing. Perhaps it's an early design.

 

The threads also go much further down the bolt