Bruce Amacker Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 OK- I hate doing tech support over the phone for students and I probably made a mistake by helping this guy. Here's what I know: 2010 E Van 6.0 Ambulance No Crank New TR sensor Unplugged fan clutch, no change Subbed known good PCM, no change No voltage on circuit LE111 violet/green, AKA 1929 green/yellow (VREF from PCM), my schematic shows this as pin 1 on C1381T, the tranny connector on the PCM. It should be 12v. (this circuit feed the OSS, turbine speed shaft sensor, and TR.) If he jumpers 12v to this circuit all is good, it starts, runs self test, etc. No continuity to ground on the circuit. I told him to check his powers and grounds going to the PCM, if there's no voltage output on pin 1 he is probably missing a power in or important ground. I told him to look at the fusebox closely for damage, aftermarket BS, bad connection, etc. He has no IDS, he's using a Solus and no BOB. Any other suggestions? Thanks, guys! The shop specializes in fleet truck repair, has 14 techs working 2 shifts. How the fuck do they NOT have an IDS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordracer Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Any codes? Do the reverse lights work? I had a 2005 F-250 do the same thing and it had TR sensor codes and no reverse lights when acting up. If this sounds like the same problem get in touch with me and we can talk because this was a long drawn out ordeal that took a couple years to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 What Keith (Fordracer) said for the back up lights. Did he remember to plug the TRP sensor back in or possibly miss a loose pin inthe TRP connector? It would be nice if he could check his MLP PID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I had a no crank on a 10 E450 gas powered stripped chassis this week. The PCM wasn't grounding the starter relay because one of the PCM power inputs was dead from a corroded wire inside the harness. In the case of my gas powered one, it was splice #131, but as this is a 6.0, yours is wired a bit differently. Mine set no codes and communicated with IDS just fine. In fact, the only symptom from a dead PCM power input was the no crank concern. Running my own temporary ground to pin 2 of the starter relay allowed everything to work normally (with the exception of neutral safety for obvious reasons). The Pin point test for no crank concerns didn't lead me in the right direction either. If the Solus is able to check the Trans Range (TR Mode) pid to verify that it reads Park or Neutral, then that's not the problem. I would back probe the PCM "B" connector KOEO at pins 3, 34, 40, 46 with a headlight bulb to verify the PCM has ALL of it's power inputs. Or ground the PCM power relay so you can do it with the connector disconnected. My guess is one or more of them is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 With no voltage on circuit LE111 there won't be a TR position signal therefore the no crank condition. And if I am not mistaken the voltage on that circuit is supposed to be VREF - 5 volts, not 12 volts. If the circuit checks out from the PCM connector to the sensors and trans connector AND a known good PCM was plugged in then I have to agree with Bruce that the PCM power and ground circuits need to be verified as well. One thing I do not see mention of here is verifying continuity of the circuit and if there was ANY voltage on circuit LE111. I wanted to go back onto FMC dealer this morning to recheck this but the site is down. I ran OASIS for the model and year and there is a TSB for no crank condition with or without the cluster being lit up like a Christmas tree. Had to do with bad splices in the harness around the drivers door sill area I THINK they were G301 and G302. I tried to find them in any obvious or relevant schematics and did not find them so I do not know how those grounds could tie into this but it's worth mentioning. I will follow up when I can log back into PTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Here's the circuit in question highlighted- the tech says there's no power on this circuit but when he jumpers power to it, everything functions normally. It appears to be an output circuit from the PCM powering these sensors: The PCED gives pinout voltages for the PCM engine and body connectors, but strangely I can't find them for the TCM connector. Does anyone know if they are there? A few years ago I did research and recorded all voltages at the PCM connector on an F-350, here's the chart for the TCM plug, I include this in my 6.0 book. I'm "hoping" they are the same on this truck, and yes, it shows 12v on pin 1: I e-mailed him asking about the reverse lights and MLP pid, I'm sure I won't hear back until sometime this week. I'll get the VIN, too. I'm still thinking there's a poor power input to the PCM somewhere. I like the idea of load testing with a headlight bulb, I teach this in my electrical classes, and I'll mention it to him. I appreciate the help you guys are giving me. I try not to do tech support for students because it takes up too much time, I "used" to do this freely until it got to be too much. I have 6000 past students- if they each call only once per year, that's 20-30 calls per day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 He did respond to e-mail, and replied: P0706: TRANSMISSION RANGE SENSOR A CIRCUIT RANGE/PERFORMANCE P0707: TRANSMISSION RANGE SENSOR A CIRCUIT LOW P1702 - TRS Circuit Intermittent Malfunction Per the wiring diagram you sent over, yes that is the circuit not receiving/ showing a 12 volt supply voltage. The codes that I get when I check memory codes as follows: P0706, P0707, P1702. I can scan the data and shows no Megahertz reading for the TR switch. Shows the truck is in drive (which I assume is a default reading). When I try to do KOEO test won’t allow it as it says it is not in park or neutral. I do not have any reverse lights either. I rechecked powers and ground Friday after we talked. If my memory is right there are 5 direct input power supplies with key on and 3 direct ground circuits. (Maybe wrong on this have to look at my notes at shop). I can’t give you much more as I am doing this at home from memory. I did put 12 volts to the circuit from a direct battery supply voltage source and all functions are normal. The truck starts, lights work, and test driving the truck shifts normal. I ran both KOEO and KOER test with the external power hookup and both pass. No memory codes either after road test. Unfortunately the code check out procedure for these codes never says anything about checking for power to circuit LE111. I already had replaced the internal NDS and internal wiring harness in the trans before figuring that out. The circuit that I read about that pertains to the fan wiring looks to be isolated from the circuit in question. Not seeing anywhere they tie in together but fan unplugged doesn’t make a difference and the circuit does have 12volts to it at the fan connector with key on. Believe there are two at the fan one 12V constant, a second one goes 12V when key on. (We talked about a shorted fan clutch on the phone) I'm sure he'll give more info and VIN tomorrow. I'm thinking it has to be a missing power/ground at the PCM. Thanks, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8WA Sman Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 In the section 307-01B Transmission Connector Layouts it list this circuit as VPWR for TR Sensor, to me that should be 12 volts. PINPOINT TEST H : TR SENSOR test H4 states ford is looking for any voltage on this wire. If he jumpers that wire to start vehicle does he have OSS,ISS, & TSS. If all these and the TR sensor work only after jumping the LE111,then I would look @ + and - for the PCM or so type of start enable issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8WA Sman Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Believe there are two at the fan one 12V constant, a second one goes 12V when key on. The second wire is circuit 352 VREF from the PCM which may not be able to handle a load similar to the VREF circuit he dealing with on the TR sensor. I would also unhook the speed sensors to make sure they are not pulling this circuit down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 1FDWE3FPXADA37256 is the VIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordracer Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The one I had was very intermittent that's why it took two years to "fix" it even though I really never found excatly what it was. When it came in for a no crank I would jump the starter wire under the hood to start it and drive it in the shop and then it would work fine for months. When it would act up again and they towed it in by the time I got to it the problem went away. Ford had me put an internal trans harness in then a few months later back in it came. This time we replaced the harness from the PCM to the trans and guess what, back in again in a few months. This time we put the body harness to the PCM in it (this where your PCM connectors that I sent you came from Bruce). A few months later it came back again and this time it was temperature sensitive, when I brought it in the shop and when the trans temp got to 48 degrees it would work, set outside overnight and it wouldn't crank until the trans temp went up. Ford sends out our FSE and for two days out in the cold we try everything. He starts wiggling the engine harness and the voltage comes and goes even though according to the schematics the engine harness has nothing to do with that ciruit. We narrowed it down to the engine harness around the IAT2 sensor and fuel filter housing area but we didn't see anything and then all the sudden the problem went away. This truck still comes to our shop and the problem has never came back and that was a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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