Don't make it perfect, just get it down the road

GregH · June 3, 2014

I've been doing a fair bit of side work during the school holidays and summer, and I've been seeing first hand that the training I'm providing for my students is not what the market wants...

2001 Ford Expedition won't charge the battery. Charge battery, check and replace alternator. While testing, I hear a tremendous vacuum leak from the PCV tube. Owner doesn't want to repair that; it'll run with the leak

2002 Dodge Neon crank no start. Another hack put a used engine in it. Been to two shops since then. Intake manifold full of dirt and water, exhaust not hooked up, compression numbers were abysmal, wiring harness hacked to pieces. Installed new ignition coil and started it up. Owner didn't want to address the other stuff.

2008 Ford Crown Victoria with a noisy A/C pulley. Advised of repairs, declined. Brought it back to me a few months later with a locked pulley, broken belt, and smoked A/C clutch.

1999 Ford Ranger, stuck on heat. Blend door cracked. Advised of repairs, the owner decides to step hard on the brake to flip the door to cool instead...

Mid-'90's S-10 with a leaking radiator. Owner provides a new radiator. Inspect, and its a junkyard radiator. And it's broken. Gets another "new" one, install, it leaks... but not leaking as bad as the first one....

2009 Tiger Truck hard to start. Fuel is contaminated with dirt. Advise cleaning the fuel tank and flushing lines along with replacement pump. Decline the cleaning, just put a pump in it.

And this is what I've come up with in just a few minutes. I am astounded almost daily at what kind of junk people drive around here. There is never a vehicle I work on that doesnt have a check engine light on or flashing. Everyone's brakes squeal and shake the vehicle. Slipping transmissions, broken windshields, bald tires... I am surrounded by crumbling transport...

I use an MPI sheet on everyone's vehicles so they see what I see... It's resulted in quite a bit of repeat business, but people here don't have any money for vehicle upkeep.

I advise my students to address the customer's primary concern first. But, look over the vehicle for additional work that should be performed - using the MPI as a guide. That way they'll only need to talk to the customer once. Several of my gradutes have gotten back with me to say they way they were taught doesn't jive with how their shops operate. They tell me so many horror stories of "set the toe and let it go" that I could write a book.

When I worked in a more affluent part of the state, the customers who were on the receiving end of a red MPI were pretty grateful - glad that we were looking out for their best interest. These customers around here, its almost as if my students are insulting them when they go over an MPI.

It's as if the vehicle owners in this area just want the vehicle to make it down the road a little furthur - not be ready to drive to California tomorrow...

Fredsvt · June 3, 2014

Nothing unusual, at least, it seems, this week it's in maximum junk week.

2008 E350 6.0, would run, die not start. "it just needs fuel filters". Find it 8 quarts low on oil. EGR valve sticks open, resulting in a horrible sounding crank-no start when warm. Fuel pump dead, as it's packed with rust. Half a book of codes stored.

Pulling teeth to pull tank, Someone's already been there, sender foot screen ripped out, bypass valve removed. Tank the worst, worst I've ever seen for rust.

Customer insists on "washing tank out with hose and let it dry in the sun". He refused at least cleaning the EGR valve.

He got a 5 minute 5 foot warranty it'll run.

2005 Toyota Sienna: My a/c is warm, oh, and the temp gauge was pegged and there was a cloud of smoke. Radiator exploded, engine empty, water pump seals melted out of it, t-stat melted, block full of stinky coolant. Surprisingly customer authorized all of it and it lives, for now.

1994 Suburban, fuel lines nearly rotted away, 4 brake lines rotted through, no bleeders, no a/c charge and it's been messed with. Guy couldn't possibly understand how it could be rusty.

2001 S-Blazer, hack did a fuel pump, completely collapsed tank, lost all the orings and spacers in the quick connect fuel lines at the tank, each line is $165 (about a foot long question mark shaped plastic line). Woman was driving it with it pouring fuel from the return line. She now has no money for the lines, so it sits.

three 1997 postal P vans bought at auction, one with 17k, one with 53k and the other with 34k. Owner's workers stripped each for parts for other ones, 53k miler has a blown motor, 17k so badly stripped, it's junk. 34k vandalized with all wiring harnesses cut, windows smashed etc. He dumped them on us since he was facing fines from the city he had them parked in.

Last one for this week, and one the customer wants and needs fixed. 2010 E350 ambulance 6.0, trans done. 180k, numerous tcc performance codes, and friction element slip codes. One drive, and it slips, skips gears and gets way too hot and spits fluid out the vent. Our local Ford store says none are available, and he can't pry a unit from any other dealers, as they seem to be in demand.

Brad Clayton · June 4, 2014

I feel that if the friggin gas companies would just ease up a bit on the price of gasoline, people might be willing to spend more on their cars and upkeep.

mchan68 · June 4, 2014

I was going to chime in, but after reading all of the above, I am completely SPEECHLESS. WOW!!! :rotz:

Keith Browning · June 4, 2014

Tough times here in the U.S. Mike. A big reason for a lot if all this the poor economy and lack of jobs. Abother layer to this is much of the work "we" do is expensive and I see a lot of work going to independents who offer lower labor rates. Unfortunately many of these people are getting screwed in the long run.

To Greg - you are teaching the right thing so please do not stop! Perhaps you need to prepare these students for the reality of life on present day America and change their approach in communicating with customers. They still deserve an honest analisys of their vehicles. If we dumb ourselves down and take the defeatist's approach then our industry is doomed. Kudos to you for at least caring!

Matt Saunoras · June 4, 2014

I do some side work for an indy and nothing pains me more than patching vehicles back together. I would almost rather incur some of the cost myself rather than have something I just had apart break completely soon after.

8WA Sman · June 4, 2014

I feel that if the friggin gas companies would just ease up a bit on the price of gasoline, people might be willing to spend more on their cars and upkeep.

My opinion is some people should stop blaming there lack of money management or just plain lack of management in general on commodity prices and start taking responsibility for their life and there vehicle maintenence. It's quite possible a lot of the above problem's may have been available.Nothing against you Brad, it just seems sometimes too much of the norm today is about finding someone to blame instead just taking responsibility. I am not referring to the people that are actually doing everything they can to get by.

Aaron · June 4, 2014

I like the blend door and slamming the brakes on one the best.

Keith Browning · June 4, 2014

I feel that if the friggin gas companies would just ease up a bit on the price of gasoline, people might be willing to spend more on their cars and upkeep.
My opinion is some people should stop blaming there lack of money management or just plain lack of management in general on commodity prices and start taking responsibility for their life and there vehicle maintenence. It's quite possible a lot of the above problem's may have been available.

Nothing against you Brad, it just seems sometimes too much of the norm today is about finding someone to blame instead just taking responsibility.

I am not referring to the people that are actually doing everything they can to get by.

I didn't hear anyone blaming other people or reasons here. Sounds mostly like simple economics: they don't have the money. I make a decent wage but my Explorer is neglected to some degree because I have to pay the mortgage, the utilities, feed and clothe my wife and two daughters. EVERYTHING is expensive, the cost of energy is high and well, we cant leave out the fact that we are taxed out the ass... some of use more than others depending on where you live. While from our stand point I agree that this is not a good situation however I can totally relate.

Brad Clayton · June 4, 2014

Allow me to expound on this. First and foremost, yes people should handle their shit properly, however there are some things that are out of our control. I am speaking about the price of gasoline. I drive a pretty fuel efficient 4 cylinder vehicle to begin with so that helps a little. Unfortunately this is offset by the fact that I have to commute about an hour a day back and forth to work.

Now if gas jumps from 3 bucks to 4 bucks a gallon, then seeing how I still have to drive the same distance to get to work, I have to re-appropriate money from somewhere else to pay for this gas with which I had not budgeted for just the week before. My vehicle needs a radiator that is leaking and needs new belts and hoses. Right now this repair is on hold and I am just monitoring the coolant level and topping off as needed. If it were announced tomorrow that the price of gas was going to be lowered in an effort to boost the publics motoring interests, then I would fix my vehicle in a heartbeat.

I would be willing to bet that QCM sheets would be a much easier sell, the family vacation, pilling everybody in the war wagon and heading off to Wally World would easier to stomach, new (ridiculously over priced) car sales might be a little higher, ect.

Not trying to get political, because that is a no-no on here, just stating how gas prices directly effect my spending habits.

GregH · June 4, 2014

I'm in one of the poorest demographics in the poorest state in the US; some of the things I've seen here would make your hair stand on end.

Two-thirds of this county's population is on public assistance. While I'm swiping my debit card at Wal-Mart, the person in front of me and behind me both swipe their EBT cards...

The neighbor across the street from me was without water for six months - because they couldn't afford the bill.

One of my daughter's friends has a refrigerator with a broken thermostat. They have to manually close a rigged up switch to turn on the 'fridge, then turn it back off before it freezes up. Oh, and they still haven't fixed their burst water pipe from last winter - they just shut it off at the meter.

Tuition for my school is $1040/semester. 80% of my students are on financial aid, and half of them can't afford the one textbook required for my curriculum.

Take a look at the houses in your neighborhood: How many DirecTV antennas are there? How many houses have coaxial cable from Comcast running to them? Around here, it is the rare household that has more than over-the-air television. High speed internet has a market penetration of maybe 25%.

Most everyone here just applies for and recieves an Obama-phone.

And we're paying $3.40 for gas...

One of the subjects we talk about in class is economics. I'm all for developing a well-rounded graduate, one who can see past what is under the hood. We talk about basic budgeting, how credit cards work, how to balance a checkbook, how to write an accurate cost estimate. One of the discussion starters I use is the cost of gas. I ask them how much they are buying per week, and how their lives would be affected if there was a significant change in fuel price. The inevitable discussion leads into how much they could pay off bills, how much more beer they could buy, etc. if the price dropped. I then ask them to consider how things would change if the price increased - $4, $5 a gallon. Whoa, that's a mood killer! One of the activities I have them do on that day is to research alternative transportation schemes - public transport, electric vehicles, alternative fuels, etc. They have found in the past that the current technology for alternative fuels is way, way more advanced and mature than they thought. I show them the fuel cell car Kia is leasing in California - with all the fuel already covered. I show them the all electrics - the th!nk neighbor, Saturn EV-1, Ranger EV, and the Focus electric. And then we delve into the homebrew alternatives - transesterification of second use oils, biodiesel, even ethanol/methanol. And I ask them if these technologies would be as mature, or even exist at all, if fuel wasn't already $3.40/gallon.

The argument being that pinching the customer drives up demand for cheaper alternatives. The market delivers.

And then, out in the workshop, we'll try to diagnose a check engine light on a late model Chevy pickup with "straiyt paiype, no cats" exhaust. Ugh, gotta love the south...

But I am proud to say that 100% of my graduated students are employed full time. A couple are working at AutoZone, but at least that's still in the right field. The ones working on cars aren't making more than about $12/hour, but at least it's a 40-hour, 8-5 job. If they have the right integrity, and spend their money with their community in mind, maybe we won't be the poorest demographic...

Brad Clayton · June 4, 2014

It's funny but I was thinking about this topic just the other day. I was seeing some real rolling wrecks come in the dealer and thinking why are they even here. Then I started part time at an Indy and holy shit.......never have I seen such atrocities performed on poor automobiles. Just as described in the start of this thread, I have slowly interjected the way I like to fix cars and why they need this and not "can I get by without it? we always have in the past" type of mentality.

8WA Sman · June 4, 2014

GregH, all I can say is WOW! Keep up the great job.

Brad, I would like to say my comment was not intended to be a personal judgement , so before I dig me hole any deeper, Sorry.

Brad Clayton · June 4, 2014

It's quite alright, I know what you were getting at. No apology necessary my friend. Don't worry about digging any holes around here, we're all big boys and I myself have pretty broad shoulders.

Fredsvt · June 4, 2014

We've seen the price of energy overall is what seems to drive the repair it all, repair a little or patch it up deals. When gas drops a bit, more come in looking to do work.

The oil companies are in collusion with this regime in power, there has never been any explanation given to why gas/diesel prices doubled just after the 2008 election. It makes one wonder WHO else is making money on this.

The barrel price of oil is still hovering at 100 to 105. After 9-11, when the price went up to 146/barrel we were no where near the prices we're at now.

I was in Winnipeg, MB during the attacks, when I crossed the border 2 days later, seeing prices of 2.56 in ND was shocking, hitting Chicago it was at a gouging $4.50 to $5.50.

Watch what happens when the new EPA regs come into full effect, watch electricity prices go insane.

Brad Clayton · June 12, 2014

Reminds me of the 'ol used car jockeys attitude "we don't want it right, we want it tonight!"

jimmy57 · June 12, 2014

The price of fuels were the highest ever when Bush was in. Summer of 2008 would have been when they would want to drop them to favor the Republicans if they played that game.

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Jim Warman · July 12, 2014

Greg, we're at $4.83 per US gallon ( and the market is volatile as hell ) and I live over top of the shit. All that new stuff going on in the middle east isn't helping. I'm "bringing" home" a third of what I used to and I've made more trips to Edmonton in the last year than I have in the previous 15 - at what is now over $200/trip without the obligatory stop at Costco.