New OEM injector takes an engine

[run6.0run]

Hey guys,, I've got one that has me close to your world. I'm not in a dealership,, I own an independent shop,, we have a couple dealerships competing for our parts sales,, which is cool.

 

But on to the issue,, we built an engine using the Ford overhaul kit about 6 months ago. The driver, drives the crap outta this poor truck. He melted the oil control ring which is why the rebuild. The coating on the studs were actually melted off. Julie took a video of the studs and sent it to ARP,, they sent a call tag to get them back n sent us replacements. They said they've never seen this before. Crazy!!

 

Well,, 2 weeks ago we put a #4 injector in it. Customer declined a new set during the rebuild.

 

The truck showed up on the hook 2 days ago. I was very concerned as I pulled it in. Then I pulled the glow plug first. Melted!!!! Tossed it on the shelf n told Julie "it's done". Half way pissed. Julie convinced me to pull the injector so we can know if the tip still exists. Well,,, the tip is cracked. We are supposed to have some rep come by to inspect for the warranty. Wonder how they're gonna treat this?? I was actually thanking God it wasn't a thrown rod,, spun bearing, ect. Lol. Those would be directly on us. This truck gets the crap beat outta it. In hindsight,, I wish I never took this customer on.

 

So I took a fuel sample,, put it in the fridge,, no separation. So in my mind,,, 4 different scenarios,,, either too much water in the fuel,,, he customer ran unleaded at one time in the last two weeks,, low fuel pressure,, or crappy injector. I cannot check fuel pressure,, unless I throw a new/or at least un cracked injector in it. Do you guys think the ford inspector will want a WOT fuel pressure reading?? I've got a couple used injectors I could throw in for a road test.

 

I haven't taken a compression test,,, once I saw the glow plug,, I stopped. Thank goodness we just got moved into our bigger shop and I've got room to sit on it.

 

I have held off on the videos of it until Ford decides if they are gonna cover the consequential damage.

 

I'm gonna snap some pics today of it.

 

You guys desk with the ford inspector guys prob all the time huh??? Any advice??? Lol.

[Keith Browning]

Dry starts = cracked injector tips. This can also happen from revving the engine after major repairs - let them idle 15 minutes to reduce the possibility of this happening.

[run6.0run]

Yeah I hear that,,, I run the fuel pump off n on for about 5 mins on n 5 mins off cracking the fuel cap when it's off. I do that about 3-4 times. I also do let it idle like you said. Sometimes customers are right there watching the power balance after repairs and most always are concerned about it being low. I tell them exactly what you said. "We gotta let the air pass as gracefully as possible". Lol.

[run6.0run]

I am sure we are all busy ( to darn busy to watch a bunch of boring video) , but feel free to check in on us,,,, we live stream in the shop

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperDutyService

[Aaron]

Water in fuel.

[run6.0run]

I took a sample when it got here n let it sit,, then put it in the freezer. I will shoot a video of the situation. I expected to see a bunch of water,, but not so much. Actually barely a couple bubbles of water in the bottom of the glass. I'm wondering if the customer put unleaded at one time and pumped it out and is keeping that silent. BUT,,, why would the new injector be the one broken?? Unless the dry start did it. But I didn't do anything different than I normally do. I will get a video.

[Bruce Amacker]

Air in the fuel or not properly bled,  IH has a TSB on it somewhere.  Air sits under the plunger, the oil hits the intensifier piston and it comes down too quickly blowing the tip off.  I had a big problem with this in IH (DT) gensets in the UK a few years ago traced to custs running the gensets out of fuel.

 

I feel your pain, this is not good.

 

[2006]

From my experience, cracked tips is caused by either grit, water, running dry, air in fuel or low fuel pressure.

 

If replacing injectors on a Econoline, before starting the engine, I always remove the fuel rail plugs at the rear of the cylinder heads with a 6mm allen wrench,  and turn the key on. The fuel rails will purge and flush out.

 

On a truck, I use the fuel pressure tester and bleed out what I can from the upper fuel filter housing first, because we all replace the fuel filters with injectors. Then I idle the engine for 30 seconds on, and 1 minute off, until it runs smooth. 

 

Also, I never replace fuel injectors without first checking fuel pressure, with the Ford fuel pressure tester and the test valve open. If its low, new filters and a pressure regulator fixes it most of the time...

[run6.0run]

I also let all injectors sit submerged in oil for as long as possible before installing.

 

This was no way getting ran long enough to check pressure,,,, let alone a wot run. I only do the rear plugs,, which I actually replace because the seal isn't available without the plug,, when the cab is up. Not many E's gracing our doorstep.

 

I do understand the causes for cracked tips,, I've got two pistons on my shelf from them,,, one was unleaded,, the other was aftermarket and possible water contamination. Fairly severe carnage. But,,, is it COMPLETELY out of the question that an OEM injector was just doomed to fail?? I've installed my fair share of em (8 today) and haven't experimented or changed any procedure in a very long time. And this is the first time that I've held the culprit,,, before it actually WAS the culprit. I've been pushing Ford injectors ONLY. I tell customers I will not install anything other than Ford. I just can't understand what the deal is/was with this particular injector.

 

I did get word the parts are covered. Overhaul kit n injector,,, but that isn't enough. We have two dealerships we but from. And the two are major competitors with each other. I told blue springs (the warranty dealer) that the midway ( the other dealer) rep has been here four times since this issue started,, He said parts are covered,, but no labor. We have spent about 65k with them this year ( we did take about 45 days off as we moved,, bought a bigger shop) and I told him he will never run my card again if I get screwed. He don't care,,, But then again. Midway has 10 times the inventory. I'm venting now. Lol. I actually shot a video,, I gotta upload it n I will post it.

[run6.0run]

I'm definitely gonna be paying much more attention to getting the air purged out in the future. Not much I can do besides that but to keep telling customers to drain their freakin separators. Some want a diesel,,, but want to treat it like a gasser. The customer that owns the truck in question,, has 4 trucks. I can't remember the last time they got out of the shop for less than $600. Those poor trucks come in for an oil change,, and after I fix all the broken stuff,, the bill is up there. Keeps our bills paid I guess. My wife Julie has made more phone calls to this customer breaking bad news. It's becoming regular practice. Lol

[leavnon3rd]

I soak the inejctors in oil and fill the rails in oil as much as possilbe but i have had more then 1 ford reman kill a cylinder within a few hours of run time.  My family owns a independent shop ( i work for a fleet) and its hard for him and any other i know to keep a customer with a 6.0 or get the work done without losing their shirt. 

[run6.0run]

Here are a couple videos I took.

 

It will not let YouTube videos upload. I've tried twice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a couple pics of the damage

 

 

 

 

The block was already .010 over and the machine shop said another .010 won't cut the grooves out. We will see if Ford approves the claim for one head and a shortblock. I should find out tomorrow.

[blown99]

Any updates on this?  I have had several bad out of the box Ford injectors that I have been fighting to get paid for the labor.  They replace the part but have been non payers on the $150 labor payout that they offer.

[run6.0run]

They are kicking the can on this. The parts manager said Ford has 30 days to approve or deny the claim. Is that true? I have been looking at the truck on our lot for an eternity it seems. I just set the cab on the frame and pushed it out.

 

 

 

[run6.0run]

I actually have gotten paid on the warranty. They do take their sweet little time doing it,, but we have gotten checks.

[cbriggs]

I just put a turbo on an 08 6.7L dodge. Turbo came from dodge, genuine cummins  reman. It was defective out of the box, we called dodge and they gave us a 1 800 # to call. We called it and they said they are for powertrain assy warranty only (engine and trans). End result is they will replace the turbo, but no labour cost. Truck never even left the shop.

[run6.0run]

Well,,, they approved a short block and one head and everything else needed to install. Not sure what we are gonna get for labor yet tho. Just updating.

[Matt Saunoras]

I've been pulling the plugs on the backs of the heads for a while now on any headgasket or engine job that allows so.  I hotwire the pump on and let as much air purge out as possible.

 

 

 

[run6.0run]

It's a sprayfest when I put the plugs in too with the pump running. Especially after one of them is already in lol. I just did a set today exactly like you mentioned Matt. Do you have a part # for the seal on the plug? We are only able to replace the plugs (which is what we do on all of them. I got a chassis side harness out of an 08.

[Matt Saunoras]

Not the seal individually, I just replace the whole plug also. I leave them a couple threads in and let them sputter a little bit just to make sure some fuel is in the rail before the injectors fire.

[run6.0run]

Well,, I got my first Ford shortblock and Ford head. Not really impressed. Hope you guys don't burn me for it. But I have a couple videos.

 

[run6.0run]

[jimmy57]

Short heads certainly need a set of the shorter service part pushrods.

[Matt Saunoras]

I hear you 100%.  The deck surface is completely unimpressive, 6.4s come the same way.  The 20mm heads are unimpressive also, I agree fully.  I've had the same marks if not worse in those heads before too.  The new 18mm heads (actually they use 20mm dowels now) are nice though.  DA and ARM both have induction hardened valve seats.  I've never had one of those heads I wasn't impressed by. I suspect the ARM 18mms are all new castings and the bare head is not reused.  They have to tag it reman if a valve spring or retainer is reused though. 

 

I am blown away that they have old lifter guides in there.  I would get those out in a heartbeat and put the new stronger ones in.  Who knows how brittle the old thin plastic ones are. 

 

Also the standard diameter bore is achieved by spray welding and remachining an old block.  I would hope that the weld alloy used is harder than the original casting.  Maybe that's the reason for the wall surface.  I hadn't noticed any missing crosshatching on any of the ones I've done recently.  I plain don't understand the deck finish though. 

[run6.0run]

The shorter 6.4 push rods are actually the only ones available now. We never reinstall the .5 mm longer ones once the are removed.

 

I have another video about the HG that was unprotected with only cardboard and was placed under the head in the box. I mean,,, wtf. I'm not even going to use it. I will take another video of the deck surface because I stoned it a bit. I can actually see machining marks now. I use a very fine sharpening stone and wd40 to clean both heads and blocks on regular HG jobs. It works very well. It brings out the stock milling on the surfaces. I know it's scary to think about because of being a stone and its removing material, but a careful hand and a lil attention to detail goes a long way. I've had skeptics in the shop about using the stone and they have watched me do it and I have made all of them believers. I will throw some more videos soon.

 

I'm very concerned about the cross hashes being non existent. Wonder how long until the rings burn up the cyl walls?? I sure wish I would've just built it. I can honestly say,, I will never,,,, ever,,, purchase a head or block from Ford. I actually am having another rebuildable shortblock delivered tomorrow. Its an 07. I have a deal with a big local salvage yard that I will buy all of them they have for dirt cheap (270),, and the kicker is that if they don't bore at .020,,, I can return it. Yeah,, I'm out the time of breaking it down,, but I keep the machine shop very busy and they will check the bores for free. I think the one I'm getting tomorrow will take me to 7 shortblocks on hand. I've gotten them before with front n rear covers,, hpop n covers,, oil cooler covers n adapters,, and I've had to use some of them before. It's always nice to have extra engines laying around. The salvage yard actually hooked me up with a full dress minus injectors on a deal that I will pay 500 once I break it down if the heads aren't cracked. Sounds like I should stick to buying parts only from the dealer huh??