Reminiscing Some Of The Big Three's Automotive Fiascos

[mchan68]

Okay gents, I'm bored today so I was just reflecting a little bit and shaking my head over some of the dismal failures I've lived through, and just wondering what your thoughts are on some of, but not limited to what I remembered growing up:

 

GM's J-body cars. The Cavalier, Sunbird, Firenza, Skyhawk and last but not least, the Cimarron. Really? $5000 more for essentially a Cavalier wearing Cadillac badges.

 

GM's, okay never mind Ford and GM's V8s that were extremely short-lived. I remember the Chevy 267 (4.4L) that was an engine option in the late 70s to early 80s. Looking at it, you wouldn't see any difference between it and a Chevy 305 or 350 since it is based off the same block. That engine was as gutless as let's say, the Ford's 255 (4.2L) V8 that was based off the Windsor block. If I recall correctly, this engine was optional only in 1980 and 1981 in the Mustang, amongst other mid sized Ford's of that era. Since not much was said about this engine, I will assume it was a total flop, since 1982 brought about the return of the beloved 302. Speaking of 1980 and 1981, I believe those were the only model years in which the brilliant V8-6-4 engine could be had in a Cadillac a. k. a. the 368. And to top that off, the HT4100 wasn't too much of a success story afterwards. If I recall correctly, an engine overhaul was considered "normal maintenance" for those engines. Damn, I would've loved to have been a GM tech at that time. Then, there's the Oldsmobile 5.7L diesel that was an option in many of GM's luxury models of that era. 'NUFF SAID.

 

Horns. Who's brainfart was it, to relocate the horn button from the steering wheel hub to the turn signal stalk? Remember all the Ford models from 1979 to 1983? Virtually every single Ford/Lincoln-Mercury model from those model years had the horn switch located on the turn signal stalk. And then in 1984, when it was finally relocated back to the steering wheel hub, I would love to have been a fly on the wall to hear how many North Americans said THANK YOU. Almost as bad an idea as some big wig at Ford's idea of renaming every model line beginning with the letter "F" (you know, FUCKstar, FUCKstyle, FUCKstang.....) in the mid 2000s. And speaking of stupid ideas, why was it that GM's mid sized four door models of the 80s had rear windows that couldn't be rolled down? I'm talking about the Chevy Malibu, Pontiac Lemans, Oldsmobile Cutlass and Buick Regal of 1978 to around 1984 or 1985.

 

The ass ends of the mid 80s Cadillac Seville and Lincoln Continental. Remember how ugly looking they were? Both of those models looked as though the delivery truck had accidentally backed up over their ass ends.

 

Okay, I've been rambling on about GM and Ford for a little bit. How about Chrysler? What was the thinking behind having every single one of their model lines based on the K-car, save for the FIfth Avenue, Diplomat and Gran Fury models which still utilized the beloved 318 V8 and rear wheel drive layout? Speaking of which, didn't some of those models talk? Remember that? Instead of a chime or buzzer, starting of the engine would be followed by a robotic voice, "PLEASE FASTEN YOUR SEAT BELTS". And, not to stray away from engines, I believe there was the Mitsubishi 2.6L four cylinder engine that was an absolute dud. Their 3.0L V6 which followed wasn't much better either. About the only engine of theirs that I actually liked was their 2.2L turbocharged engine. Fitting into a Dodge Omni with a 5 speed and you had one serious little econo-rocket!!! I believe it was called a Dodge Omni GLHS.

 

Back to Ford. How many of you remember when Ford had threatened to pull the plug on the Mustang? Apparently the car that became the Probe was the intended replacement at the time. Funny how when the word had spread, how North Americans (more or less Mustang enthusiasts) screamed bloody murder and Ford took an immediate retreat, hence the '87 to '93 model year Mustangs that became HUGELY successful. And then look at how the Probe turned out.

 

Anyone have any comments or thoughts to share?

 

 

 

 

[Aaron]

305 camshafts tht were self machining until they went round.

[mchan68]

305 camshafts tht were self machining until they went round.

Funny you mention that. That was litterally the very first "engine job" I had ever done, changing one of those out on a 1977 Chevy Caprice. Mistake #1 was installing the distributor 180 degrees out.

[Keith Browning]

The GM 350 CONVERTED to a diesel.Can anyone tell me why after around 100 years Ford still cant build a truck engine that does not break exhaust manifold bolts & studs? Seems to me that this would have been fairly easy to remedy after soooo much time. It is the simple, basic things that still plague motor vehicles like the manifold leaks. V-8 Modular engines that are self destructing left and right after being in production for well over20 years.Mike I remember the Dodge Omni GLHS - stupid concept but was indeed a fun car to drive. I was no so fond of those 2.2L turbos as they shoved that engine into a lot of models. My brother had a Charger with that engine and he commented that is was nothing special because of that. Proof of that - a friend of mine had a Chrysler New Yorker (K-car) with a 2.2L turbo in it. Funny shit but that platform is what saved Chrysler as it included the Aries K, their minivans as a few other models.

[Bruce Amacker]

 Then, there's the Oldsmobile 5.7L diesel that was an option in many of GM's luxury models of that era. 

 

 

I honestly think that the 5.7/4.3 and 6.5 diesels are the reason diesel passenger cars will never become popular here in the States until a complete generation of people (who remembers these) dies off. It's a shame. 30-50% of passenger cars overseas are diesels, last I saw it was 1.5% in the US, and forget trying to find a light truck overseas without a diesel.

 

As for pattern failures and engineering bombs, I can't even count how many there are.  It's a sad commentary on American engineers and bean counters and the reason Asian imports took/have such a stronghold in our domestic market. The only thing good about the Asians is they forced the domestics to build a much better car over the last 10 years or face going out of business altogether. (Sounds strange coming from a guy who drives a Toyota made in the US?)

 

It seems like the pattern failures of the 90's have gone away (or at least lightened up).  OE fuel pumps that wouldn't make 60K, power racks, fuel injectors, intake gaskets, etc seem to be less common. Let's not forget head gaskets in 6.9s, we did so many of those that I stocked them. 

 

[Bruce Amacker]

The GM 350 CONVERTED to a diesel.Can anyone tell me why after around 100 years Ford still cant build a truck engine that does not break exhaust manifold bolts & studs? 

 

How about spark plugs that come out (when they're supposed to), or air filter housings that work?  I know no other mfr who has air cleaner problems but Ford has huge problems with all 4 of their diesel series. The early and late 7.3 were horrible recalled designs and dusted engines, the 6.0 MAF housing warps letting in dirt and dusting engines, the 6.4 can be installed backward and the 6.7- why did they go backward from the Donaldson PowerCore? The pleated paper won't last as long and has trouble icing up.

 

:WTF:

[BigWalt]

don't forget 307 Oldsmobile.frigging pistons are machining the cylinder walls.50k miles, you need new pistons and bore job.

[jimmy57]

I think first prize still goes to GM: the Vega. Make an aluminum parent bore block and treat cylinders with some silica Pixie dust. Then due to lack of rigidity you make the cast iron cylinder EXTRA tall so it braces up the block. Save weight in the lower end and add it all back to the head.

 

Ford V8 spark plugs is in second place. How hard can it be to include enough spark plug threads? How hard can it be to do a rework on the heads (3 valvers) and learn from your mistakes and NOT do something even more stupid?

 

Ford 6.4/6.7 radiators is third. Radiators should last longer than tires and more than half as long as brake pads.

[mchan68]

I think first prize still goes to GM: the Vega. Make an aluminum parent bore block and treat cylinders with some silica Pixie dust. Then due to lack of rigidity you make the cast iron cylinder EXTRA tall so it braces up the block. Save weight in the lower end and add it all back to the head.

My parents had one of those cars. It was a '76 Pontiac Astre with a three speed manual. It was the biggest pile ever. And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Cadillac HT4100 the same setup? Cast iron cylinder heads and aluminum block, hence a major reason why they were notorious for internal coolant leaks and their need for "regular maintenance" overhauls.

[jimmy57]

Yep, HT4100 had iron heads, aluminum block, but had iron cylinders. They went through intake gaskets and many pulled head bolt threads out of block.

[batmantech]

All the above mentioned are right on. But hey how can you forget side pipe exhaust on 97 f150 that came out in front of the right rear tire. Then the o-ring and lug nut recall that followed. Or the one that kept me very busy for years the 3.8 head gaskets of the mid to late 90's.

[forddieseldoctor]

Ah yes. All the crap that happened before I was born.

[mchan68]

All the above mentioned are right on. But hey how can you forget side pipe exhaust on 97 f150 that came out in front of the right rear tire. Then the o-ring and lug nut recall that followed. Or the one that kept me very busy for years the 3.8 head gaskets of the mid to late 90's.

YUP, I remembered those. They kept me busy as well.

[mchan68]

Ah yes. All the crap that happened before I was born.

I was kind of expecting responses to this thread from some of our more senior members here.

[batmantech]

It is funny that many recalls or common problems are usually on parts or designs that have been around for years. You would think the new engineers would study past failures and learn a little.

[BigWalt]

Don't forget forward clutch pistons on AXOD......anybody remember that.........

[Chad_Kelsoe]

How about the plastic intake gaskets GM used during the mid to late 90's? Can't tell ya how many 4.3/5.0/5.7 engines or 3.1/3.4 engines I did. I did come across the lisle tool that made those 3.1/3.4 intake jobs so much easier.

[jimmy57]

It is funny that many recalls or common problems are usually on parts or designs that have been around for years. You would think the new engineers would study past failures and learn a little.

It cost money to find new problems. Also it is more environmentally wise to recycle.

[jimmy57]

Phenolic (plastic) caliper pistons.

 

VV carburetors.

 

lubed for life rubber insert tie rod ends.

[BigWalt]

Oil leaks on  Ford 2.9 and 4.0................very similar engine, don't you think Engineers would solved gasket issue?Early production GEM module, it goes bad without warning, you can have window stuck open or closed, wipers inop, etc etc..... who's the moron invented that?Plastic intake on Ford 4.6 Police vehicle...aka Ole Leaker.

 

 

[mchan68]

Anyone here old enough to remember AMC Gremlins and Pacers? God, those had to be the UGLIEST creation on wheels ever known to mankind. How about the venerable Chrysler's 225 (3.7L) slant six? Remember those? You could hear those a mile away.Didn't those cars before the k-car platform was introduced have issues with prematurely rusting gas tanks?

[mchan68]

 

305 camshafts tht were self machining until they went round.

Funny you mention that. That was litterally the very first "engine job" I had ever done, changing one of those out on a 1977 Chevy Caprice. Mistake #1 was installing the distributor 180 degrees out.

 

Brainfart. Mistake #2 was overtightening all the rocker arms on that engine. Almost all valves were stuck open when I was finished. No wonder it didn't have any compression.

[Aaron]

Three threads showing above the rocker nut and fire it. Adjust from there after break in.

[mchan68]

Three threads showing above the rocker nut and fire it. Adjust from there after break in.

I was taught to tighten it down just before you could spin the pushrod with your finger, and then tighten another 1/4 turn.

[batmantech]

When I was a kid I would watch the neighbor swap rims and tires on his Pacer. Chrome rims in summer and factory steel and hub caps in winter. Fast foreword two houses and 25 plus years later, guess what my new neighbor had in his back garage yep a "sweet" Pacer same red color too.