Everyone please read!!!!

[Jim Warman]

If you are air testing the high pressure oil system on a truck that has had the new FICM strategy programmed, disable the FICM BEFORE proceeding with air testing. This can be accomplished by simply removing the FICM relay....

 

One of our techs turned the key off while the air was still hooked up. The sound made was ummmmmm "unique" as the injectors buzzed out and all of the injectors leaked (air) profusely after the experience from the spill holes, apparently.

 

Early to tell if any real damage has been done - but, at this point, it doesn't look good.

[blown99]

How would shop air hurt the injectors when they are being buzzed? I would imagine that they would get much louder with the air vs the oil which would quiet them a bit. Wouldn't the buzzing effect just help remove the oil from the injectors with the air pressure being behind the oil.

COuple questions on the ford side - why was the key on when doing the air test? To hard to acess the IPR valve to energize it with B+.

On the international chassis the injectors are only buzzing after the engine was running and shut off or after an extensive crank and not just a key on key off deal.

Keep us informed with the outcome of the inj. please.

[Jim Warman]

This truck was a late build 04 - tech was having a real tough time of getting to the root of the high pressure oil concerns. With no identifiable air leaks, Hotline said change the HPOP. He had some improvements but ICP was still short of firing the truck when hot....

 

Block off one side - ICP would build.... open that side up and block off the other side... ICP would build.... disable the FICM and crank the engine and ICP would build.

 

We use Active Commands to duty cycle the IPR when air testing.... much quicker and easier than trying to jumper the solenoid.... The key was cycled off with (AFAIK) the IPR cycled up. The spools stopped where-ever they felt like and there were leaks all over.... By now the engine is coolinbg down so the tech returned the truck to runnable and finally got it fired up again - ran well for a very few seconds and then started acting up... stalled with no restart before operating temp was reached... At least ICP was back to the almost but not enough pressure.

 

Finally, the decision was made to replace the 4 injectors on the right side (where the air was administered). Truck now runs well (considering there is likely still air in the systems) and restarts hot.... final road test will be Friday.

 

Were the injectors part of the original concern? were all of them? No way of knowing for sure.... but when it comes to these sorts of things, there is no point in tempting fate. And we really don't need a customer hearing this sort of noise.

 

Standard procedure in our shop is now to disable the FICM for air testing purposes... no exceptions.

[Diesel Jay]

The only real damage to the 6.0L injectors occurs when there's a lack of fuel, not oil. Air in there won't hurt the spool valves.

 

As I'm sure you know, though, air in the HP oil circuit can cause rought running. It can take some time and some aggressive driving to purge it all, but will eventually sort itself out.

 

Regards,

Jay

[Jim Warman]

Thinking it out, Jay, I have no doubts about what you are saying.... At the same time, this is not a noise that I want my customers hearing... at lot of these guys are a little spooked by hearing the new strategy rattle the injectors at shut down....

 

While the greater part of our tasks involves repairing these trucks, our "jobs" don't stop there..... Even if our service advisors "shield" us from our customers as best they can, we are still tactition, diplomat, doctor, lawyer, negotiator,,,, I have to missing some stuff, here.... Our service advisors are getting smart enough to realize that their knowledge is limited and, in our town, anyway, the customers can smell a line of bullshit from a long way away.... Oops, there I go again....

 

I'd rather not have a "civilian" hear this sound than have to try and explain it....

[Keith Browning]

I thought of this thread yesterday as I was air testing an engine. I was tempted to plug the FICM relay back in but resisted. I think it's safe to say it couldn't cause any harm but why test fate. There's a thread going that suggests using compressed gasses like CO2 for "high pressure" air leak testing. I wonder what that would sound like and what seals might suffer from the higher crankcase pressure. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

[Diesel Jay]

Jim:

 

In terms of "customer service," you're thinking way ahead! And you're correct to note that there are a lot of "sensitive" folks out there when it comes to their 6.0L's.

 

With that said, I think even you techs would be shocked at how hard the engineers abuse these engines during testing. I've been in a few trucks where they were testing various reflashes or trying to sort out problems/bugs. The engineers have a PC with some software that allows them to control just about every aspect of the PCM calibration. I've seen them switch variable values to make these engines barely run, or alternatively, smoke like trains, and then proceed to power brake, or full throttle launch, or purposesly kill fuel or oil delivery, etc. all in attempts to figure out a problem. I mean, I wouldn't run an old U-Haul rental truck as hard as these engineers push some of these brand new engines. You quickly learn that it's harder to break these things than most people think, and it also tells you how "out-of-whack" some of the programmers/tuners really are if they can, indeed, break these engines.

 

I point this out as just a measure of reassurance. The 6.0L has proven to be somewhat problematic, but it's also tougher than most people think. It just doesn't have the head-room built into it that the 7.3L did, which was grossly overbuilt for use in LD pickup trucks.

 

Regards,

Jay

[snw blue by you]

I have always explained to customers who doubt the 6.0L (based mostly on internet chatter)that the 6.0 is actually a decent motor and most problems have been caused by the ancilliary items, i.e, injectors, HPOP, o-rings, turbos, etc.

In my case I have seen very few engine hard part failures although I'm sure they happen.

 

As for air testing, call me stubborn, but I always start with bank 2 and as a result the FICM is removed, so this is not a problem for me.

[Keith Browning]

I have seen very few engine hard part failures although I'm sure they happen.

You know Steve, you have an excellent point there. I will agree with that statement and expand on it as I think it through. Honestly, not a single hard part failure that failed on it's own but, like you stated, it has to have happened.

 

Valve and valve train failures, almost all were caused by rust that developed in the valve guides of a few exhaust valves. These were caused by non-use of the vehicle. I don't understand however how there could be so little oil there that rust could form in the first place.

 

Piston failures like MELTING and cracking. All of the ones I have seen were caused by sticking turbos and over-boosting issues.

 

I am not sure about injectors causing hard part problems other than a couple of turbo chargers that the seals failed from fuel dilution. One resulted in an engine running away in our lot and subsequently exploded. My #1 tech, a "newbie" at the time was running the engine at full throttle after installing new injectors and a turbo. It never dawned on us then that the charge air cooler could be filled with fuel diluted oil that came from the failed turbo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif Whoops!

 

I have had replace several blocks due to manufacturing quality issues LIKE porous castings, rough machining at the lower block surfaces and THREE blocks that were cracked around the oil cooler opening.