6.0L turbo differences

Matt Saunoras · September 10, 2014

As you guys may have figured out I've been playing around with 6.0 turbos for a little while now. I have about 6 cores and out of all this I've come across some subtle differences throughout the years. I took some pics tonight and I'll try to summarize everything I've noticed.

There are actually four 6.0L turbos. The CHRA TSB has four different center housings based on engine serial number. Essentially though there are really only 3 different designs as there were 2 designs used in 2003-2004.25

For this thread I will refer to the 03 turbo as the horizontal rear mounting bolt turbo used in 03-04.25 MY engines

The 04 turbo I refer to was used in 2004.25-2005.25. I am not sure of the exact cutoff date for this turbo.

The 05+ turbo was used in everything after mid year 2005.

The first 03 turbo is what we know as a clamp style turbo, you cannot buy this turbo as a complete anymore, just a CHRA if you want to repair an existing turbo. I have actually never taken apart one of these and serviced it so naturally I don't have any pictures of one. I know of it's existence as I've spotted 2 or 3 over the years. The compressor cover looks quite a bit different than the later years and it should be easy to recognize. This turbo is one that I suspect won't take a standard Garrett rebuild kit. I hear the bearings are of a different length or something odd about the internals.

The second 03 is the one we are probably used to seeing. It is in the majority of 03 engines now and it's exterior looks about the same as the later years. It still has the horizontal rear mounting bolt. All 03 turbos have taller skinnier vanes

and a 10 blade turbine wheel.

The 04 turbo switched things up a little bit on the turbine side. The rear mounting boss changed to accommodate a new pedestal. The turbine wheel is now 13 blades to increase backpressure (EGR flow) and reduce spool up time. The turbine inducer and exducer stayed the same size but the inducer was shortened a few mm. With the inducer change the vanes got shorter and changed profile. The compressor wheel stayed the same size as an 03.

The 05 turbo got even smaller yet. The compressor wheel is a few mm smaller on the inducer. The turbine blade count stayed the same but the exducer is the smallest diameter of them all. This design will cause an 05 to spool up fast but it will run out of airflow up top. I believe this is one reason the 03-04 trucks always seem to run a little better that their later counterparts. It is really hard to see the differences in the 04 turbine and the 05 turbine but they are there. The 05 vanes and vane posts stayed the same as 04 but the turbine housing outlet is smaller in diameter to fit the smaller turbine exducer.

Now for the pics (I am not a photographer)

There are 2 different vane styles. The 03 vane is skinnier, taller and longer than the 04+

Here is the 03 ten blade turbine

Here is the 04 turbine, the diameters of the inducer and exducer are the same as the 03

Side view of the 03 turbine

Side view of the 04 turbine

Comparing the vane height to the turbine inducer (04)

Comparing the vane height to the turbine inducer (03)

03 vane installed in an 04 housing

04 vane installed in an 03 housing

03 vane posts are taller to fit the taller size of the vanes

04+ vane posts are shorter

04 and 03 turbos side by side with their respective turbine housings

04 turbine housing with the larger outlet

05+ turbine housing, it is very hard to tell but the turbine outlet is a few mm smaller in diameter than the 04

05+ (left) and 04 (right) turbine housings side by side

03 (left) and 04 (right) turbine housings side by side

Here is one way to externally ID an 04 turbo. Notice the Garrett name plate is raised. This means the compressor wheel is a larger diameter than the later years. If you have an 2005MY and not sure if it's an early or late this is a good indicator.

This is an 05+ compressor cover. The Garrett name plate is not raised

Here is a badly worn out 04 vane. Keep an eye out for vanes that are worn like this, if they are all bad enough it can cause inaccurate VGT response and you'll never be able to get your desired vane position. If you've ever done a VVT test you know how fast vanes can respond.

The unison ring can't accurately move this vane anymore

And the last pic, if you've never media blasted a turbo I highly suggest giving it a try if the opportunity arises. The results are unmatched vs normal cleaning techniques.

That's all I have for now. There is more that I missed and if I get any more good pics I'll put them in here. Tomorrow I should have my hands on a VT365 turbo out of an 06 F-650 so that will make for some more interesting comparisons.

Matt Saunoras · September 12, 2014

As promised I got some pics of a VT365 turbo from an 06 F-650. I was surprised how much smaller this turbo is than the powerstroke turbo. I'm not sure if the pics do it justice but everything is significantly downsized.

The compressor cover is a clamp style like an early 03 turbo. Notice how small the compressor wheel is. Also its a 6x6 bladed wheel as apposed to the 7x7 the 6.0L turbos use.

These can be cleaned and are subject to the same rusting issues as a 6.0L

Here is a vane from it next to 04+ vane

Notice the turbine outlet is necked down

Here is the turbine, much smaller than any of the 6.0L turbines

And lastly the 2 unision rings, VT on the right. The center housing is physically the same outside diameter but the center hub where the unison ring rides is smaller.

I'm quite surprised how different these turbos really are, they make the powerstroke turbo differences almost negligible in comparison.

8WA Sman · September 12, 2014

Great post Matt. Gonna take me some time to digest it but I don't plan on going anywhere.

tonybullitt · September 12, 2014

Very nice post. I have cleaned many many turbos but never had multiple apart at same time to compare like that.

Bruce Amacker · September 13, 2014

Is this one weird? It's my cutaway engine I use in class, a pre-production 6.0 fitted with F650 trim. Speed sensor in the turbo and lots of other odd things like exhaust manifold ports all drilled for EGTs. IH "X" PN denotes experimental, I think. The OF/FF base is machined AL, not cast, and has all of the machining marks in it. PS I'll trade you the unison ring if you have a bad one I can use in class. This engine had nearly zero miles when I got it in late summer '03.

Matt Saunoras · September 13, 2014

The 02-04 VT turbo I suspect is different and is basically a downsized 03 6.0L turbo. The turbine blade count, mounting bolt location and vane profile are all more similar to the 03 6.0 turbos. I think what Keith found in his other thread is a early VT vane amongst 03 6.0L vanes.

Thanks for the unison ring offer but it would be hard to know if they're exactly the same being a pre-production turbo.

Aaron · September 14, 2014

I got a couple used ones

Aaron · September 14, 2014

Unison rings I mean

Keith Browning · September 14, 2014

The pic of the turbo with the kitchen herbs and spices has me confused. Turbochargers and crushed red pepper... I am feeling emotions I cannot understand. :ohnoes:

forddieseldoctor · October 8, 2014

I got to split a clamp style 03 today. Too bad I didn't catch that it was a clamp style until today. I saw the bolts and said it's a bolted one and that's what I ordered. I figured that the clamp ones had another v-band clamp. I'll get a pic of the whole thing assembled when I get the correct chra tomorrow. I apologize for the crappy pics. I didn't realize how bad they were until I got home. I might try to re-take them tomorrow as well.

You can see the diferences from the bolted 03 chra sitting on the bench behind it.

Compressor housing is completely different.

These are the clamps. The get bolted on and hold the compressor housing onto the chra.

Matt Saunoras · October 9, 2014

Yeah I figured as much. That's about the same as the VT turbo I have.

forddieseldoctor · October 10, 2014

Whole assembly

Matt Saunoras · November 1, 2014

Here are some other differences between the 03 6.0L turbo and the later years.

The journal bearings are a few MM shorter and the spacer is longer in an 03. The overall length of both bearings and the spacer is the same so the longer bearings/shorter spacer can be installed in an 03 turbo. I believe one of the 6.0L coffee table books addresses this change.

Also the collar and thrust washer are different from 03 and the later years. In 03 the collar is two piece and the thrust washer is a full 360°. The later years use a solid one piece collar and a 270° washer that slides into the collar.

The 360° thrust washer is considered an upgrade worthy to any later turbos using a larger compressor wheel.

Keith Browning · November 2, 2014

I have to say Matt that you are without any doubt our 6.0l turbo guru!!!

Matt Saunoras · June 17, 2015

I am bringing this up from the dead.A while ago I posted pics of the VT365 turbo I got in as a core from an F-650. What I wound up finding upon teardown was a badly worn, eroded compressor seal causing a nasty oil leak into the intercooler. The unison ring slot was egged out a little bit too. For the hell of it I picked up a GT3572VA rebuilt kit and got extremely lucky and snagged a very lightly used VT unison ring off eBay.I cleaned everything up real nice, media blasted the housing, vanes, ring and slapped some new bearings and seals in it. Since that day it's sat on my bench at work behind all my other pretty turbos.... Until today that is. I got to thinking that once I sell my 6.0L there's going to be no more experimenting because I won't have any way of testing them out. I don't claim to be a turbo builder and I prefer to try anything out before I sell it. I've done this a few times and it hasn't failed me yet.But what about the VT365 turbo? I had kicked around the idea of running on my F-250 but I was afraid because of how small it was, it would easily overspeed and possibly damage it. I'm to the point where I'm only going to have one chance to drive a 6.0 with a VT turbo.And quite honestly what a blast it is. You couldn't imagine how awesome this little turbo spools on a laggy stock 6.0. It's just gets up and goes. Granted it's going to run out of steam fast and I really didn't run it over 2000 RPM but honestly I didn't have to. The truck moved just fine in the lower RPMs. It was impossible to get underneath this turbo and bog.I ran the IDS turbo boost test and it made about 1 psi more MGP than all the stock turbos ever have at this elevation. My VGT duty cycle while cruising varies between 35-45% telling me that turbo needs to open up more than a 6.0 to achieve desired EBP. Otherwise it ran just fine, cruising my boost varied between 5-10 PSI which on a light F-250 keeps the lag away. Similar to how a heavier F-550 that's geared low seems to stay in a better operating range.Put about 45 miles on it so far too. I just can't get over how well this thing drives.

nelsona19 · October 6, 2015

Ford reman turbo with reman unison ring?

nelsona19 · October 6, 2015

I noticed the little dot that comes on the new one is in the same place as where the reman hole is.

8WA Sman · July 17, 2016

Matt, I have a customer supplied turbo that is going on a '05 Excursion the rear mounting bolt on the turbo I pulled off is vertical & the one on the customer supplied is horizontal. I also noticed that the thrust washer on the original one is a 270°, reman is the 360°. This is a reman with a billet wheel from how knows where. So I told the customer his turbo is wrong & his rebuilder wants to send the parts & the customer is wondering if I can swap them.

I very much dislike customer supplied parts & all my invoices state there is no warranty on parts or labor if the customer supplies the parts but @ the end of the day......

I have not had very many supplied parts in the 12 years I have been in business & this guy has supplied the parts on this job & the time before this & both times they have been wrong. Last time it was ball joints & he ended up buying mine. I think he should buy a turbo from me or pay me bay rental....Trust me there will not be a next time for him supplying the parts. Several reasons but here is just one my business is based on being the lowest cost not price. When I receive the wrong parts it disrupts this.

The funny thing on the ball joint job, he had me press in the joints, install the axle shaft seal and he did the work himself, INCLUDING replacing the hub on the wrong side :readthis: Oh yeah he ended buying the hub from me because the hub he got had course threads(DRW) :haha2:

Anyway enough fun....what do you think?

Matt Saunoras · July 18, 2016

That is an 03 turbo, it's the one that whistles real loud. You cannot swap the turbine housing with any other model years that have the vertical rear mounting bolt. The turbine, vanes and housing are all unique to that year.

The best thing to do would be to get an 03 pedestal from ford. If you absolutely must install the turbo as is it will kind of set in the pedestal and mate up to the pipes just fine. You could just use the front 2 bolts and forget about the rear one. Honestly it should not damage the pedestal and many guys do this when installing an 03